Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x08 - "If Memory Serves"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
I just can't tolerate Georgiou. And if they want to give her depth, maybe they shouldn't have her gloating about another genocide.
She was the only negative about this episode for me.
OMG! I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out who that was. And I refused to read the credits out of stubbornness.
Now I feelz teh stupid.
A
Amaris
Guest
Well done, this week! Some twists and turns, and we finally get to really see Spock.
GREAT
* The intro using The Cage as a backdrop for getting us up to speed on Pike's familiarity with Talos IV and Vina. Nicely done.
* Talos IV masquerading as a black hole? Yeah, I figured it out as soon as I saw it, but still, it looked and worked beautifully. Speaking of...
* This week's episode feels so cinematic! All I was missing was the popcorn, and I could have been in a movie theater.
* The Talosians look great, and Vina's appearance feels "right" as weird as that might sound.
* While somewhat more tame than some of the bigger theories, Spock and Michael had a powerful emotional separation. Seriously, I teared up when she called him a half breed. Knowing why she did it doesn't change the pain of those words, and I can understand why Spock took it so hard. Also, that face. That little Spock face! His response to her when the memory has subsided is just as cutting, though. Spock has internalized that pain, and it's not something that can be resolved so easily.
* Tilly. Oh, you only thought I forgot. Tilly Tilly Tilly. I'd step into your office any day of the week. ♥
GOOD
* I'm warming up to Georgiou. I despise Section 31, but seeing her engage in mischief with the organization feels satisfying on some level. That she picks at Leland is icing on the cake.
* The standoff between Culbert and Tyler was done fairly well. Two people who have had their identities ripped out from under them literally fighting it out seems to work alright here.
* Paul desperately trying to make Hugh feel at home just tugs at your heart strings, which is why it stings when Hugh essentially rejects him, telling him to move on.
* A Talosian switcheroo there at the end was pretty cool, and Spock's small smile to his Captain dovetails nicely with what we saw in "The Cage."
MEH
* I'm sincerely hoping that they don't split Hugh and Paul for good, and that Hugh manages to reconcile his past experience with his current situation. It would be a shitty move to bring Hugh back only for him to walk away from Paul and their relationship together. So I will be watching this one closely.
* I feel a little bad for Tyler that he wasn't believed, because it did seem like an obvious frame up. Airiam has some splainin' to do, and I guess we see it next week. Still, it seemed pretty clear Tyler was being setup by a third party. Thing is, I had completely forgotten Airiam had been mesmerized/hypnotized whatever you want to call it. So this felt kind of meh as a development point.
BLERGH
* None. Nothing. I enjoyed all of it. I was fully invested. Even Section 31 didn't bring it down much this week.
FINAL THOUGHTS
I've ran it through my mind, deciding on what kind of grade it would get from me, because the few things that bugged me didn't lessen my enjoyment, but they nagged at the back of my mind, mainly Section 31 of course, but at the same time they didn't truly detract much from the episode. In all honesty, while the performances were top notch this week, I have to hand it to Anson Mount's Pike for selling the hell out of the whole thing, and his experience with the Talosians and Vina, his handling of Saru's decision to let Tyler and Culbert fight it out, his faith in Burnham, and his confidence in Spock. He's doing a lot to keep the whole thing together and working, and between him and the other principals, they're doing a good job, especially this week.
I give this episode a Genuine 9. I am not only impressed with the visuals this week (gorgeous!), I am impressed with the characters, and how the plot managed to stay on a consistent tempo, hitting all of the right beats. Very well done all around. Now that's a Star Trek.
GREAT
* The intro using The Cage as a backdrop for getting us up to speed on Pike's familiarity with Talos IV and Vina. Nicely done.
* Talos IV masquerading as a black hole? Yeah, I figured it out as soon as I saw it, but still, it looked and worked beautifully. Speaking of...
* This week's episode feels so cinematic! All I was missing was the popcorn, and I could have been in a movie theater.
* The Talosians look great, and Vina's appearance feels "right" as weird as that might sound.
* While somewhat more tame than some of the bigger theories, Spock and Michael had a powerful emotional separation. Seriously, I teared up when she called him a half breed. Knowing why she did it doesn't change the pain of those words, and I can understand why Spock took it so hard. Also, that face. That little Spock face! His response to her when the memory has subsided is just as cutting, though. Spock has internalized that pain, and it's not something that can be resolved so easily.
* Tilly. Oh, you only thought I forgot. Tilly Tilly Tilly. I'd step into your office any day of the week. ♥
GOOD
* I'm warming up to Georgiou. I despise Section 31, but seeing her engage in mischief with the organization feels satisfying on some level. That she picks at Leland is icing on the cake.
* The standoff between Culbert and Tyler was done fairly well. Two people who have had their identities ripped out from under them literally fighting it out seems to work alright here.
* Paul desperately trying to make Hugh feel at home just tugs at your heart strings, which is why it stings when Hugh essentially rejects him, telling him to move on.
* A Talosian switcheroo there at the end was pretty cool, and Spock's small smile to his Captain dovetails nicely with what we saw in "The Cage."
MEH
* I'm sincerely hoping that they don't split Hugh and Paul for good, and that Hugh manages to reconcile his past experience with his current situation. It would be a shitty move to bring Hugh back only for him to walk away from Paul and their relationship together. So I will be watching this one closely.
* I feel a little bad for Tyler that he wasn't believed, because it did seem like an obvious frame up. Airiam has some splainin' to do, and I guess we see it next week. Still, it seemed pretty clear Tyler was being setup by a third party. Thing is, I had completely forgotten Airiam had been mesmerized/hypnotized whatever you want to call it. So this felt kind of meh as a development point.
BLERGH
* None. Nothing. I enjoyed all of it. I was fully invested. Even Section 31 didn't bring it down much this week.
FINAL THOUGHTS
I've ran it through my mind, deciding on what kind of grade it would get from me, because the few things that bugged me didn't lessen my enjoyment, but they nagged at the back of my mind, mainly Section 31 of course, but at the same time they didn't truly detract much from the episode. In all honesty, while the performances were top notch this week, I have to hand it to Anson Mount's Pike for selling the hell out of the whole thing, and his experience with the Talosians and Vina, his handling of Saru's decision to let Tyler and Culbert fight it out, his faith in Burnham, and his confidence in Spock. He's doing a lot to keep the whole thing together and working, and between him and the other principals, they're doing a good job, especially this week.
I give this episode a Genuine 9. I am not only impressed with the visuals this week (gorgeous!), I am impressed with the characters, and how the plot managed to stay on a consistent tempo, hitting all of the right beats. Very well done all around. Now that's a Star Trek.
Could Nilsson be Discovery's mysterious Chief Engineer?
Am I missing something, or did the recap of the Cage use the non-remastered scenes from the Cage? Why didn't they use the remastered version?
Peck was Spock was excellent! I honestly think he's the torchbearer for Spock from now on, all respect due to Quinto. He hit it out of the ballpark and his portrayal stands strong even next to Nimoy's best performances.
And that fight scene between him and the Section 31 doctors was excellent.
Nice how they are giving more depth to the Pike/Vina relationship so that it can be understandable why he'd be ok with living the rest of his life with her in the Menagerie.
I'll re-rate everything when I do a re-watch at the end of the season. This episode and "Calypso" will be the 10s -- instead of the 11s I have them at now -- and everything else will be adjusted accordingly.
I'll treat it as my first impression versus my final impression. Tim Lynch used to do the same thing with his ratings.
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We're getting a TV series focused on S31, so you're not going to have any luck there.
Also Georgiou is supposed to be in Season 3.
the live action footage was HD, but the shots of the Enterprise were the original.
Excellent episode. I'm sad that none of the singing plants turned out to be red feather dusters but I suppose I can live with such egregious disregard for canon. 
So we can confirm that the Red Angels are giving Spock clues he needs to prevent a terrible thing in the future from destroying everything. Aside from the obvious meta-commentary on Nero's incursion, all we've (seemingly) confirmed is the benevolence of the angels.
It's probably been suggested a billion times but I'm convinced that Georgiou, armed with ~10 years of information on the Defiant, will exploit Section 31 to re-establish, if not her Empire, a system wherein she is effectively in charge. This becomes the V'draysh from the Calypso. I was a little perturbed when I first learned that indeed "V'draysh" is a corruption of "Federation;" why would an honest sympathetic family man be fighting *against* them?
The interventions of the Red Angels, then, might be part of a plot to prevent a corrupted, malevolent (or even amoral) regime from rising. Further, it might be necessary to act so indirectly so as to avoid time paradoxes that I'm confident will piss off at least 25% of the fan base when they're explained.
Also oof Culber's character is now basically an anthropomorphic gut-punch and I can't say I'm disappointed.
So we can confirm that the Red Angels are giving Spock clues he needs to prevent a terrible thing in the future from destroying everything. Aside from the obvious meta-commentary on Nero's incursion, all we've (seemingly) confirmed is the benevolence of the angels.
It's probably been suggested a billion times but I'm convinced that Georgiou, armed with ~10 years of information on the Defiant, will exploit Section 31 to re-establish, if not her Empire, a system wherein she is effectively in charge. This becomes the V'draysh from the Calypso. I was a little perturbed when I first learned that indeed "V'draysh" is a corruption of "Federation;" why would an honest sympathetic family man be fighting *against* them?
The interventions of the Red Angels, then, might be part of a plot to prevent a corrupted, malevolent (or even amoral) regime from rising. Further, it might be necessary to act so indirectly so as to avoid time paradoxes that I'm confident will piss off at least 25% of the fan base when they're explained.
Also oof Culber's character is now basically an anthropomorphic gut-punch and I can't say I'm disappointed.
I've given 2 tens this season (Last week and tonight) and tonight was so much better than last week. That's the issue I have with giving 10s to episodes. It has to be perfect in every way. This episode was that for me, but what if I give another 10 this season. This show won't be perfect every week, but this week, damn I was enthralled.
I find it continuing to be fascinating how Pike is just as a 'Context is King' as even Mirror Lorca was. One minute he's giving his newly cheekily snarky first officer a dressing down and telling him to 'go by the book' in future and by the end of the ep he's disobeying a direct order. Are we sure this isn't Mirror Pike 
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.
I'm amazed at how thoughtfully and sensitively they handled going back to a "sacred" Star Trek story and location. It was done with extreme care and love for the original material, and really TRULY feels like a meaningful and fully-integrated prequel/sequel story.
The Burnham/Spock flashback was harrowing and very emotional...not a let down at all, and provides appropriate, insightful and WELCOME backstory to both Michael and, more importantly, Spock.
Even the "B" story with Culber, Tyler and Stamets was 10/10. Well acted, tense, meaningful.
The Burnham/Spock flashback was harrowing and very emotional...not a let down at all, and provides appropriate, insightful and WELCOME backstory to both Michael and, more importantly, Spock.
Even the "B" story with Culber, Tyler and Stamets was 10/10. Well acted, tense, meaningful.
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