Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x06 - "The Sound of Thunder"

[Noname Given]

On an unrelated note, this must be the one of the longest stretches of episodes in Star Trek history without the hero ship firing any kind of weapon.

Um - Pike did fire a missile at the Shuttle he thought contained Spock (but instead had Georgiou) aboard in the previous episode (#5).

And honestly both TOS and TNG had stretches of 6 episodes (and longer) where no weapon was fired.

Just saying...

 

[Deledrius]

Something else that occurs to me is that one of the biggest questions I had coming into this episode, about what the Ba'ul are doing with the matured Kelpiens they "harvest", is still unanswered. The assumption was that they are slaughtered in some fashion, but that's just a presumption which comes from their religion of "The Balance" which we now know is performative and serves a purpose other than the one stated, so it cannot be taken as fact.

It's still a possibility, after all the Ba'ul do see extermination as a valid option, but for all we know the Ba'ul are a third stage in the maturation of the Kelpiens. It's also possible they're kept sequestered in a controlled environment until they change again, or are artificially accelerated to the third state (as has been established as possible with the transition away from their initial stage). What we could see of the Ba'ul through the tar, it was a tall, gangly creature with something like tendrils dangling from its head...

It really fascinates me how many ways there are to read those population numbers we're shown, devoid of all context. It's a great way to keep the Infodump Sphere from being an infallible exposition device, should they continue to use it wisely. We know only how many of each of the three lifeform types there were at any given time, but we know not why, or how, the numbers changed. Nor do we know anything about the nature of the relationship between them or their role(s) in the planet's biosphere, and even Saru's knowledge of his own species' lifecycle is very incomplete.

 

[MvRojo]

The question I hate asking: How long does it take to repair the Enterprise? I hope they're doing some in-between five-year missions refitting. Otherwise, how bad was the damage really?

It's possible it's already fixed up. It might also be that Starfleet is living Pike in command of Discovery in case they need to do more spore jumps, or because Discovery's crew in now the most well-versed on the seven signals and it's more efficient to leave him there until the mission is completed.

Or they decided to take the opportunity to do a major refit.

 

[MvRojo]

They changed the callsign on the shuttle from what it was in the Short Treks episode. In the short, it was "SHN 03" which implied it was from the Shenzhou, which would have meant Georgiou spent a huge chunk of her career on the Shenzhou. Now it just says "03," and is from the Archimedes.

 

[Succubint]

I really enjoyed the episode. Only one thing really detracted from a somewhat compelling story and the excellent performances of Doug Jones, SMG and the actress portraying Siranna. And that was the constant spinning camera in that one briefing scene. It was disorienting, went on far too long and took me right out of the scene. In general I was not a big fan of the moving shots.

Gorgeous location/setting. In fact the whole episode looked fantastic. I love the Ba'ul ship design and tech in general. Also the idea that they were based under the water.

My theory in the preview thread about the Ba'ul possibly being the former prey who were killing off their former predators completely paid off, so I am chuffed about that.

I think it was made very clear in what happened to Saru and Siranna that the Kelpians that are culled are indeed murdered as soon as they are beamed to the location they ended up in. The drones arrived, scanned them, then forcibly restrained Saru against the wall in a way that no Kelpian could escape unless they had already matured and had the will to resist. The drones were just about to drill into Saru's skull to nullify him. And what about his sister? She had to die too, since she witnessed Saru's return? We saw them abduct her, even though Saru had given himself up. So, as much as it was good the Ba'ul backed off from attacking Discovery once Saru surrendered, I'd hardly call them acting in good faith.

The situation is extremely volatile and could potentially be disastrous now, true, but I think something had to be done. It will be interesting to see if some kind of new balance can be achieved. However, I strongly disagree that keeping a once dangerous species pacified by force and by compulsory execution is keeping a benevolent sense of balance or order for that world. The Ba'ul were committing evil acts, but justifying it as the only solution to prevent another situation which almost led to their extinction on the planet. That's gotta be some strong motivation. Can they come to a peace? A more harmonious co-existence? Only time will tell. I hope they revisit this story arc in the future and show us what progress (if any) has been made.

I thought Michael's role in this episode struck a good balance as second fiddle to Saru's story. It was his perspective we followed, and it was nice to see her lending him her support.

Pike handled himself well considering how agitated Saru was getting. He kept his cool and it was appreciated.

Nice to see Airiam and Tilly working together and helping to contribute to the problem solving.

Very sad to see how lost and traumatized Hugh is right now, but I am glad they are not sweeping his harrowing experiences under the rug. Paul needs to snap out of his happy daze and really be sensitive to how much in shock his partner really still is. I hope to see more story time of them working through this together.

 

[Hythlodeus]

Stamets, in regards to Culber, is slowly turning into Mark from Rent, that entitled, unlikable POS who was the worst of a group of people who all consisted of entitled pieces of S

 

[Visitor1982]

I gave this one an 8, slightly lower than the previous episode.

So far, season 2 of Discovery is very consistent. All episodes are above average in my opinion.

Season 1 was more of a mixed bag. A few episodes I really liked and a couple of episodes I disliked. Others were just average.

 

[dinzy]

This was a decent episode. I don't know what to make of the Ba'ul. They don't make much sense to me. A minority sentient species that turn some ridiculous manipulation to keep their predators under control is ok.

But why do they turn into slime? They seem to be designed that way just for the horror effect, not as a well thought out species. And what would want to eat that? Is it the classic defense of a skunk or garter snake where they excrete grossness to deter predators. I guess in their case the Kelpiens like their food covered in noxious sludge. We better see Saru eating sludgy looking meat or I call bullshit.

 

[Deledrius]

I really enjoyed the episode. Only one thing really detracted from a somewhat compelling story and the excellent performances of Doug Jones, SMG and the actress portraying Siranna. And that was the constant spinning camera in that one briefing scene. It was disorienting, went on far too long and took me right out of the scene. In general I was not a big fan of the moving shots.

I consciously noticed that move, too.

I think it was made very clear in what happened to Saru and Siranna that the Kelpians that are culled are indeed murdered as soon as they are beamed to the location they ended up in. The drones arrived, scanned them, then forcibly restrained Saru against the wall in a way that no Kelpian could escape unless they had already matured and had the will to resist. The drones were just about to drill into Saru's skull to nullify him. And what about his sister? She had to die too, since she witnessed Saru's return? We saw them abduct her, even though Saru had given himself up. So, as much as it was good the Ba'ul backed off from attacking Discovery once Saru surrendered, I'd hardly call them acting in good faith.

It's possible. I was able to understand most of what the Ba'ul said, but there were a couple of lines that I couldn't figure out through that filter no matter how many times I backed it up and listened again. It was unclear what the intent was with the drones, even though I agree it's safe to assume it was going to be fatal.

The situation is extremely volatile and could potentially be disastrous now, true, but I think something had to be done. It will be interesting to see if some kind of new balance can be achieved. However, I strongly disagree that keeping a once dangerous species pacified by force and by compulsory execution is keeping a benevolent sense of balance or order for that world. The Ba'ul were committing evil acts, but justifying it as the only solution to prevent another situation which almost led to their extinction on the planet. That's gotta be some strong motivation. Can they come to a peace? A more harmonious co-existence? Only time will tell. I hope they revisit this story arc in the future and show us what progress (if any) has been made.

Something had to be done, certainly. I just don't think the path they took was sufficiently examined to convince me it was the right thing, right now. The Ba'ul were definitely not benevolent here. Still, there were a lot of conclusions jumped to (reasonably or not) without the necessary evidence. I liked that the story raised a lot of great questions, I'm just disappointed that the episode itself didn't acknowledge most of them in some way. One of the benefits of this show's format is the possibility of examining this dynamic in more detail later, which I am happy to look forward to.

Pike handled himself well considering how agitated Saru was getting. He kept his cool and it was appreciated.

Very true. He seemed confused and concerned, and didn't over-react to the insubordination in a non-constructive way. Good leadership there, with the recognition that this was a deep issue that couldn't and shouldn't be dismissed. I just felt it needed to culminate with the requirement for Saru to receive some form of guidance to work through what he's been going through.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

I think Ba'ul must be shorthand for bowel. I mean, the symbolism is all there.

These guys really know how to carry a grudge.

 

[Novarcharesk]

One thing that is constant, regardless of the episode, is that Pike is the manage I wish I had in every job. Patient, calm, willing to listen, but can crack the whip and make an executive decision properly, seen best in how he ordered Saru off the bridge. He even gave him some latitude at first, but eventually, enough was enough.

Anson Mount is doing perfectly in such a well nuanced captain. I cannot overstate how good he is, and he truly does justice to a character stemming from 60 years ago with all the myths built around him.

 

[Succubint]

It's weird some people are seeing Armus in the Ba'ul. Aside from the fact that both of them may be covered in some kind of black pitch or slime, I'm really not seeing the resemblance.

Armus was the black tar creature. It could become amorphous, be a lake of tar, climb onto a shuttle and cocoon it. When in humanoid form it was bulky and blobby. Resembling a melting wax figure rather than any kind of solid creature. It could move with lightning speed, snaking out a part of itself (like Odo) to attack, touch or grab. It had no distinguishable face. It radiated rage and sadistic arrogance.

The only Ba'ul we saw also appeared to be dripping with black goo, but as a covering rather than its main structural substance. It rose out of the water, which appeared to be its natural habitat. It's limbs were spindly, almost skeletal, and its long fingers were claw-like. It had sharp spines extruding from its back and other parts of its limbs. Its face was mostly shrouded but it had very distinctive glowing red eyes. Saru called the Ba'ul fragile and, to me, its movements reflected that, almost like it was arthritic in its joints. It relied on the speed and agility of the mobile drones to subdue Saru, rather than risk physical confrontation itself. It came across as cautious, more methodical, almost dispassionate at times.

I really don't think the two of them are related as a species.

 

[Novarcharesk]

It's weird some people are seeing Armus in the Ba'ul. Aside from the fact that both of them may be covered in some kind of black pitch or slime, I'm really not seeing the resemblance.

Armus was the black tar creature. It could become amorphous, be a lake of tar, climb onto a shuttle and cocoon it. When in humanoid form it was bulky and blobby. Resembling a melting wax figure rather than any kind of solid creature. It could move with lightning speed, snaking out a part of itself (like Odo) to attack, touch or grab. It had no distinguishable face. It radiated rage and sadistic arrogance.

The only Ba'ul we saw also appeared to be dripping with black goo, but as a covering rather than its main structural substance. It rose out of the water, which appeared to be its natural habitat. It's limbs were spindly, almost skeletal, and its long fingers were claw-like. It had sharp spines extruding from its back and other parts of its limbs. Its face was mostly shrouded but it had very distinctive glowing red eyes. Saru called the Ba'ul fragile and, to me, its movements reflected that, almost like it was arthritic in its joints. It relied on the speed and agility of the mobile drones to subdue Saru, rather than risk physical confrontation itself. It came across as cautious, more methodical, almost dispassionate at times.

I really don't think the two of them are related as a species.

I really hope there's something more to the species, they seem evil, but they have a sympathetic nature to them given their past.

Especially given how they spoke to Discovery, they seems almost trapped by their fear of extinction, exacerbated how close they came to it. And given their obvious fragility and dependence on a liquid medium to survive, who can blame them?

 

[Gonzo]

Yep, I also downloaded the episode via CBSAA.

I download and watch on Netflix in the UK, has someone been incorrectly banned?

Just come online so haven't gone through thread yet, wont see the episode until later.

 

[Deledrius]

It's weird some people are seeing Armus in the Ba'ul. Aside from the fact that both of them may be covered in some kind of black pitch or slime, I'm really not seeing the resemblance.

Armus was the black tar creature. It could become amorphous, be a lake of tar, climb onto a shuttle and cocoon it. When in humanoid form it was bulky and blobby. Resembling a melting wax figure rather than any kind of solid creature. It could move with lightning speed, snaking out a part of itself (like Odo) to attack, touch or grab. It had no distinguishable face. It radiated rage and sadistic arrogance.

The only Ba'ul we saw also appeared to be dripping with black goo, but as a covering rather than its main structural substance. It rose out of the water, which appeared to be its natural habitat. It's limbs were spindly, almost skeletal, and its long fingers were claw-like. It had sharp spines extruding from its back and other parts of its limbs. Its face was mostly shrouded but it had very distinctive glowing red eyes. Saru called the Ba'ul fragile and, to me, its movements reflected that, almost like it was arthritic in its joints. It relied on the speed and agility of the mobile drones to subdue Saru, rather than risk physical confrontation itself. It came across as cautious, more methodical, almost dispassionate at times.

I really don't think the two of them are related as a species.

Armus wasn't a species, he was purported to be the discarded evil of some great species. It's not entirely implausible (at least not beyond that already ludicrous attestation) that Armus could be the remains of the Ba'ul literally shedding at some later point whatever darkness it is that surrounds them. I suppose how convincing that is depends on how far one feels that the literal metaphor set up by TNG can be applied to the Ba'ul.

Mind you, I don't think this is where they're going with it, but the visual resemblance is enough to warrant a thought.

I really hope there's something more to the species, they seem evil, but they have a sympathetic nature to them given their past.
Especially given how they spoke to Discovery, they seems almost trapped by their fear of extinction, exacerbated how close they came to it. And given their obvious fragility and dependence on a liquid medium to survive, who can blame them?

This is how I feel too. The Ba'ul are xenophobic and defensive to the point of hostility, but there's room for nuance here that I hope we see explored more. It'll give Saru a lot to chew on.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Another very good episode. A satisfying payoff for Saru and the Kelpien/Ba'ul.

And the Red Angel is Iron Man??

 

[Weyoun 7]

Good episode.
If only they wouldn't make Burnham the center of nearly every scene, it gets annoying.
One quick passing thought:
The outlines of the red angel look distinctly female (if I am not totally mistaken).
See this episode ca. 47m 28s.
If this was Spock, then I'd honestly advice him to join a gym.

 

[cbl1]

Liked the episode but gave it a 7. Primarily didn't like the Ba'ul portrayal. Honesty to me this was an example of spending a lot of money on CGI where a guy in a costume could have given more life to the portrayal.

 

[eschaton]

Liked the episode but gave it a 7. Primarily didn't like the Ba'ul portrayal. Honesty to me this was an example of spending a lot of money on CGI where a guy in a costume could have given more life to the portrayal.

Yeah.

They spent so much time/money on the VFX and the look. But as a result, the Ba'ul just felt like a plot impediment rather than - you know - a character.

 

[theonering]

I'm calling it now... The red angel is actually Picard righting temporal wrongs based on some guilt trip from the fall of Romulus, this arc just serves as an extended backdoor pilot to the new series

In all seriousness though... Great episode! Discovery has come a long way since the first season and has actually become a show I look forward to watching every week as opposed to a chore because I feel like I have to see the story through. As somebody who grew up on trek in all its forms up until ENT, I understand the gripes that people have about it not living up to their expectations. But you have to also realize that as time goes on new people (show runners,production crew and cast) are going to bring their own unique spins and interpretations to the story. If you like it, great! If not, move on and find something new you can get behind. Imagine all the flak TNG would have gotten it's first couple seasons if the internet was a thing like it is now!

On a side note. The shot of the Discovery warping to Kaminar with the camera view positioned stationary over the nacelle may be my new favorite Sci-fi CGI scene, kinda reminded me of mass effect.