Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x05 - "Saints of Imperfection"

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I want to point out that the genocidal Section 31 we saw during the Deep Space Nine era may not (for various possible reasons) have all the same tendencies and characteristics as the Section 31 we will see during the Discovery era.

Agreed. My spidey sense is telling me DSC is building up to something big on that point.

Or perhaps Sloan was not being entirely truthful during his appearances on DS9. All we know of Section 31 at that time comes from him, after all. And he's as unreliable a narrator as anyone.

 

[Amaris]

If that is their intent, how is it that there are so many continuing threats to the Federation that they appear to have utterly failed to eradicate or even slow down in any meaningful way? Pretty incompetent exterminators if that is their actual mandate. Or perhaps their intent is to ensure the survival of the Federation and utilize absolute measures as a last resort. We don't know, as no series has yet looked that deeply into Section 31s operations, at least where canon is concerned. However, when we do get a series, more answers will likely come and we will be provided information to better judge the organization. But painting them in such broad strokes seems to me a little premature.

I’ve never known condemning an attempted genocide to be a premature act of judgment.

I want to point out that the genocidal Section 31 we saw during the Deep Space Nine era may not (for various possible reasons) have all the same tendencies and characteristics as the Section 31 we will see during the Discovery era.

Except for the attempted Klingon genocide. We all saw that happen, didn’t we?

 

[Turtletrekker]

And Section 31 even has its own court martials, who woulda thunk it?

I imagine that "court-martial" is just a fancy way of saying "be careful you don't get yourself thrown out of an airlock".

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The thought that there's things even Section 31 won't do, is rather chilling.

 

[Turtletrekker]

"Court martials" in Section 31 are probably more about things that harm the organization rather than things that harm the Federation.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Except for the attempted Klingon genocide. We all saw that happen, didn’t we?

Do you mean in Will you take my Hand? Was that section 31?

 

[Jadeb]

After Discovery’s thoughtless flirtation with genocide and its tawdry toying with male rape in season one, I would like a break from this sort of thing.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Do you mean in Will you take my Hand? Was that section 31?

Cornwell was involved, so it probably was.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Do you mean in Will you take my Hand? Was that section 31?

Well, it involved Admiral Cornwell and we know that Admiral Cornwell is involved with Section 31, so it's not entirely a stretch to make a connection there.

 

[Nyotarules]

Starfleet has a General order 24 - destroy an entire planet. Genocide as a tactic is not a stranger to the organisation. It's values were never perfect.

 

[Amaris]

Do you mean in Will you take my Hand? Was that section 31?

I think it was. I am not convinced Cornwell isn’t a part of it. She’s certainly bloodthirsty enough. I figure we will know more.

Suffice to say, though, they did bring on the cannibalistic, genocidal Georgiou as an agent, putting her in charge of the Klingons. The same Georgiou who was more than ready to murder the shit out of a planet filled with Klingons.

 

[cooleddie74]

Section 31 has either indirectly or directly tried to commit genocide against two different species that we know of: the Klingons and the Founders of the Dominion.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Cornwell was involved, so it probably was.

I don't know. Kirk was ready to be the bringer of total destruction of Eminar VII, and he wasn't Section 31.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I still can't shake the feeling that "General Order 24" doesn't actually exist, and that Kirk was just using it to scare the Eminians.

 

[Longinus]

I still can't shake the feeling that "General Order 24" doesn't actually exist, and that Kirk was just using it to scare the Eminians.

They use their corbomite bombs for the General Order 24.

 

[Nyotarules]

I still can't shake the feeling that "General Order 24" doesn't actually exist, and that Kirk was just using it to scare the Eminians.

Is this because you want to keep your saintly version of Kirk?

 

[Amaris]

I don't know. Kirk was ready to be the bringer of total destruction of Eminar VII, and he wasn't Section 31.

The people of Eminiar VII were committing atrocities against their entire planet, genocide against their own people in such a way the war would have went on without end. I believe Kirk’s motives were to shock the Eminians and the Vendikarr into ending their war lest the neatness they had made of murder become messy. It was a moment of Mutually Assured Destruction, and like the actual policy, forced the two governments to sit down together and talk reason. To use words instead of bodies.

In short, it was a ploy, and it worked. What Section 31 did was attempt an actual genocide. It was only thwarted at the last second by outside parties.

 

[Tuskin38]

The federation has never been perfect or a utopia.

 

[Lord Garth]

The federation has never been perfect or a utopia.

That's right. It just wants to be.

 

[Nyotarules]

The federation has never been perfect or a utopia.

Compared to life in the Middle Ages our society would look like a Utopia to those folks, but we know it's far from one.