Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x05 - "Saints of Imperfection"

[137th Gebirg]

"Oh, no. I know Hamlet. And what he might said with irony, I say with conviction. What a piece of work is man. How noble in reason. How infinite in faculty. In form, in moving, how express and admirable. In action, how like an angel. In apprehension, how like a god."

I've always had a problem with this line, as I feel it was taken out of context (and Q should have called Picard out on it, being an omnipotent being, and all). There's more to this paragraph from Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2:

Original Text: The beauty of the world. The paragon of animals. And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust? Man delights not me. No, nor woman neither, though by your smiling you seem to say so.

Modern Text: There’s nothing more beautiful. We surpass all other animals. And yet to me, what are we but dust? Men don’t interest me. No—women neither, but you’re smiling, so you must think they do.

He's basically saying everything that was said before is utter bullshit, forcing that whole stanza into the realm of irony, and man/woman is nothing more than dust at their most base form. In short, "Meh...whatever...fuck humanity."

Context is for Kings.

 

[Worf2DS9]

I was worried how they would technobabble Culber back to life, but it was actually an...interesting way to do it. Now, hopefully we'll get to see some recovery time for Culber over time before he gets back into the swing of things.

Anybody else think the absence of Reno was jarring? She was right there with Stamets as the Tilly situation escalated at the end of the previous episode, but now she's nowhere to be seen? And the start of this episode seems to have picked up just minutes after the last. Would have been interesting to see Reno's reaction to Stamets' "very bold, deeply insane plan" to rescue Tilly.

This was really the first time I actually enjoyed Georgiou post-MU. Her scenes at the beginning of the episode, were fun to watch, including her exchange with Burnham as she was escorted back to the shuttle (dropping the apple, the little hiss as she departed).

 

[Longinus]

Anybody else think the absence of Reno was jarring? She was right there with Stamets as the Tilly situation escalated at the end of the previous episode, but now she's nowhere to be seen? And the start of this episode seems to have picked up just minutes after the last. Would have been interesting to see Reno's reaction to Stamets' "very bold, deeply insane plan" to rescue Tilly.

Yea, it's weird. People just seem to appear and disappear on this ship randomly. They did that with Nhan too.

 

[Worf2DS9]

Yea, it's weird. People just seem to appear and disappear on this ship randomly. They did that with Nhan too.

Yeah, I'd forgotten about her for a bit -- and then suddenly she was standing in that briefing room, apparently to everyone's surprise!

 

[Alan Roi]

Yea, it's weird. People just seem to appear and disappear on this ship randomly. They did that with Nhan too.

She probably just went back to engineering. What does she know about organic interdimensional transporters? She's a Gearhead, not a Farmer.

 

[Alan Roi]

After Discovery’s thoughtless flirtation with genocide and its tawdry toying with male rape in season one, I would like a break from this sort of thing.

Do you prefer it when TNG did similar things? There, aliens will just show up and impregnate crew-members without even a how do you do. And astrophysicists would attempt genocide and not even get a slap on their wrist for the effort.

 

[Alan Roi]

That's right. It just wants to be.

Or more precisely, it wants to be seen as one, and to its credit its not lazy about it.

 

[Turtletrekker]

@Alan Roi -- just to clarify, you're referring to "The Child" and "Evolution", correct?

 

[Alan Roi]

I’ve never known condemning an attempted genocide to be a premature act of judgment.


Except for the attempted Klingon genocide. We all saw that happen, didn’t we?

That was pure 100% Starfleet ordering that. But then as Noted Starfleet General Order 24 exists, so if you are against Section 31, you must be opposed to Starfleet for also agreeing that Genocide is an acceptable tool of last resort. But the fact is Section 31 is in the Starfleet charter, so really, they are Starfleet. But again, its a tool of last resort, not first, likely not tenth or 100th, but last. And I'm sure it doesn't anger prospective Federation members to hear, "Yes if your planet or race faces annihilation and the only way is to do the some to whoever is trying to annihilate you, we will be on your side."

 

[Nerys Myk]

I still can't shake the feeling that "General Order 24" doesn't actually exist, and that Kirk was just using it to scare the Eminians.

Must be a standard ploy since Scott knew what it was without explanation.

SCOTT [OC]: This is the USS Enterprise.
KIRK: Scotty, General Order Twenty Four. Two hours! In two hours!

SCOTT [OC]: All cities and installations on Eminiar Seven have been located, identified, and fed into our fire-control system. In one hour and forty five minutes

[Bridge]

SCOTT: The entire inhabited surface of your planet will be destroyed.

 

[Alan Roi]

@Alan Roi -- just to clarify, you're referring to "The Child" and "Evolution", correct?

You know your TNG.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Must be a standard ploy since Scott knew what it was without explanation.

So they were both in on it.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Must be a standard ploy since Scott knew what it was without explanation.

"Queen to queen's level 3."

 

[Guy Gardener]

Earth, a member world of the Federation, is a Utopia.

Although if there are trillions of humans in the AQ, and any one planet can only hold a few billion comfortably, most humans you would think are not born on, or live on Earth?

 

[Nerys Myk]

So they were both in on it.

Seems like an odd set up.
KIRK: And If we ever wind up in danger, I'll say Execute General Order 24.
SCOTT: What's that?
KIRK: It means you threaten to glass the whole planet. That'll make them stop.
SCOTT: And if they don't, do I glass the planet?
KIRK: Uh, no. I'll think of something.
SCOTT: I'd better write this down.

 

[Longinus]

So they were both in on it.

But no one told Uhura. When Scotty Informs Eminarians about the imminent destruction, she turns to Scotty, looking shocked. Were it a real general order, she obviously would have already known what it meant.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Seems like an odd set up.
KIRK: And If we ever wind up in danger, all say Execute General Order 24.
SCOTT: What's that?
KIRK: It means you threaten to glass the whole planet. That'll make them stop.
SCOTT: And if they don't?
KIRK: I'll think of something.
SCOTT: I'd better write this down.

As I meant to imply with my chess quote (from "Whom Gods Destroy"), Kirk and Scotty do seem to have a code phrase or two worked out between them.

 

[Longinus]

Seems like an odd set up.
KIRK: And If we ever wind up in danger, I'll say Execute General Order 24.
SCOTT: What's that?
KIRK: It means you threaten to glass the whole planet. That'll make them stop.
SCOTT: And if they don't, do I glass the planet?
KIRK: Uh, no. I'll think of something.
SCOTT: I'd better write this down.

No weirder than 'Condition Green.'

 

[USS Triumphant]

It wasn't just Kirk and Scotty. Perhaps the very real General Order 24 reads, "In the event that a foreign civilization is found to be militarily hostile to the UFP, and it is the judgment of the senior Federation representative present that diplomacy has been tried and failed, it is permissible to bluff with threat of planetary eradication to try to restore diplomatic efforts."

 

[Amaris]

That was pure 100% Starfleet ordering that. But then as Noted Starfleet General Order 24 exists, so if you are against Section 31, you must be opposed to Starfleet for also agreeing that Genocide is an acceptable tool of last resort. But the fact is Section 31 is in the Starfleet charter, so really, they are Starfleet. But again, its a tool of last resort, not first, likely not tenth or 100th, but last. And I'm sure it doesn't anger prospective Federation members to hear, "Yes if your planet or race faces annihilation and the only way is to do the some to whoever is trying to annihilate you, we will be on your side."

There’s a reason I despise Section 31 and you’re touching on it. It has no place in the future of that humanity, otherwise all we get is another United States, and we sure as hell don’t need another one, but with bigger weapons.