Personal choice? Isn't that your reasoning for continuing to watch a show you hate?
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x09 - "Into the Forest I Go"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Personal choice? Isn't that your reasoning for continuing to watch a show you hate?
The end is stupidly vague.
I'd like to know what sort of mirror universe they are in.
For Prime, from TOS, we'd see a TOS Klingon corpse in the debris.
For Prime, from Ent/TNG, we'd see an Ent/TOS klingon in the Debris, or a corpse in a Starfleet TOS uniform.
For Mirror, from Mirror Mirror, we'd see a corpse in the debris wearing a Mirror Starfleet uniform.
For Kelvin, we'd see a kelvin Klingon corpse in the debris field or a human corpse in the debris field wearing a Kelvin uniform.
Something new.
I'd like to know what sort of mirror universe they are in.
For Prime, from TOS, we'd see a TOS Klingon corpse in the debris.
For Prime, from Ent/TNG, we'd see an Ent/TOS klingon in the Debris, or a corpse in a Starfleet TOS uniform.
For Mirror, from Mirror Mirror, we'd see a corpse in the debris wearing a Mirror Starfleet uniform.
For Kelvin, we'd see a kelvin Klingon corpse in the debris field or a human corpse in the debris field wearing a Kelvin uniform.
Something new.
By all means
I don't hate it I gave it a five and that was generous. I think with polls you ignore the tens and the ones. But that's just me 
Next time we wait for you to tell us what score is acceptable before we vote.
What score did you rate it, Guy?
Oh don't be sad, you rate it exactly the standard you feel it has earned
Sorry if I offended.
I gave it an 8.
If you click on the poll where it says how many people voted, it will tell you who voted.
Sounds like it. But what's wrong with that? The war is fought in space. Space is empty. 80% of the casualties came from the first day of the war, the Battle of the Binaries, which involved dozens of ships being lost. Months later, it's big news that even a single starship let alone three would be lost - apparently when Starfleet gets its act together, it at least manages to withdraw when facing defeat.
That's pretty much how the Pacific war went, too: in the first weeks, the Japanese managed to slaughter all the Western naval forces in the region, but soon thereafter it became a matter of mighty fleets clashing or rows upon rows of destroyers trying to push through but the USN very seldom actually losing a ship.
Something was about to change in "Para Bellum", though: cloaks made it possible for Klingons to ambush and kill three ships. That's like the Japanese suddenly turning all their warships into submarines without losing the big guns or the high speed...
The map on Lorca's wall shows the front lines moving. When planets change ownership, do people die? Hard to tell; we never heard of "bombardment", and while certain Klingons seem to like eating at least a select few opponents, I doubt they are interested in eating all the colonists whose turf they conquer.
ENT did try and make it a big deal that Sato would have to translate, that is, configure a translating machine, to allow Archer and the Klingons to converse (in what sounds to us like English without overlapping voices). It's basically only in the "Affliction"/"Divergence" adventure that Archer and Phlox jointly converse with Klingons out of whom a few just barely might be fluent in Denobulan and/or English but most shouldn't.
Perhaps we might finagle this into the Klingons being familiar with starship-sized translation computers but unfamiliar with an enemy agent actually holding a translator in her hand while aboard a Klingon ship that hasn't been tasked with translating? This would happen relatively seldom, and the instances from ENT could well be forgotten. Kol appears like a totally brainless brute in the first place...
Timo Saloniemi
A very good episode! It wasn't perfect and contained a few plot holes/nitpicks (such as why wouldn't the Klingons that were en route destroy the tower/Pahvans?) but overall it was very good.
* It's more obvious than ever (besides being the same actor) that Tyler is Voq.
* Lorca coaxing Stamets to make the final jump... Why? What are his motivations?
* Stamets' eyes reminded me of Gary Mitchell.
I rate this episode 9/10.
* It's more obvious than ever (besides being the same actor) that Tyler is Voq.
* Lorca coaxing Stamets to make the final jump... Why? What are his motivations?
* Stamets' eyes reminded me of Gary Mitchell.
I rate this episode 9/10.
I missed that, good catch! I guess I didn't look too closely at the scene... Will have to rewatch it.
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I am not going to try and catch up on the last 40 pages, but that was an excellent episode.
Lorca is the master manipulator, he must have files and caches of info to manipulate his officers into doing what he wants.
The ending was slightly weak as they couldn't have telegraphed the miss-jump was coming any harder.
Lorca is the master manipulator, he must have files and caches of info to manipulate his officers into doing what he wants.
The ending was slightly weak as they couldn't have telegraphed the miss-jump was coming any harder.
Timo
The USN lost more ships in the years after the first few weeks of the war then they did in the first few weeks of the war. Here is a list from Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Navy_losses_in_World_War_II
The Japanese did not, as you put it, managed to slaughter all the Western naval forces in the region. They permanently put out of action two battleships - the Arizona and the Oklahoma. Every other ship at Pearl Harbor which was damaged was put back into action within days or months of the surprise attack. The attack at Pearl Harbor is now considered a major failure, as they did not achieve their goal of keeping the USN forces out of the war for any significant amount of time. Instead of concentrating their dock on the infrastructure of the base - like, the refueling depots or the repair yards, they focused their attention on the warships. And, as I said above, other than the loss of two warships because of the costs of restoring them to active status was prohibitive, the warships they did hit were back in the fight rather quickly.
The war fought between the Klingons and the Federation I would liken to the Phoney war between the Axis and the Allies in 1940. There were no major battles in this period - there were a small number of engagements with limited casualities. (The map in Lorca's ready room has not altered its boundaries much, if at all. The Klingons conquered four systems, all close to their space, yet they have not made great strides towards conquering systems closer to the Federation core. And, we know from earlier Trek, that at least three of these systems - the Sherman's Planet system, the Organia system, and the Ardana system - did not stay Klingon long. There was still disputes over the first two in the 2260s. A third system, the Gasko, according to the Star Trek: Star Charts, also did not stay Klingon long. This became a Romulan system.)
The USN lost more ships in the years after the first few weeks of the war then they did in the first few weeks of the war. Here is a list from Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Navy_losses_in_World_War_II
The Japanese did not, as you put it, managed to slaughter all the Western naval forces in the region. They permanently put out of action two battleships - the Arizona and the Oklahoma. Every other ship at Pearl Harbor which was damaged was put back into action within days or months of the surprise attack. The attack at Pearl Harbor is now considered a major failure, as they did not achieve their goal of keeping the USN forces out of the war for any significant amount of time. Instead of concentrating their dock on the infrastructure of the base - like, the refueling depots or the repair yards, they focused their attention on the warships. And, as I said above, other than the loss of two warships because of the costs of restoring them to active status was prohibitive, the warships they did hit were back in the fight rather quickly.
The war fought between the Klingons and the Federation I would liken to the Phoney war between the Axis and the Allies in 1940. There were no major battles in this period - there were a small number of engagements with limited casualities. (The map in Lorca's ready room has not altered its boundaries much, if at all. The Klingons conquered four systems, all close to their space, yet they have not made great strides towards conquering systems closer to the Federation core. And, we know from earlier Trek, that at least three of these systems - the Sherman's Planet system, the Organia system, and the Ardana system - did not stay Klingon long. There was still disputes over the first two in the 2260s. A third system, the Gasko, according to the Star Trek: Star Charts, also did not stay Klingon long. This became a Romulan system.)
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We never heard anything regarding the war. There is no big picture. All we know is there is war and Federation is maybe losing it. Maybe not. Maybe 10000 people died, maybe more. Maybe there is only part of Klingons that are at war with Federation, maybe all klingons are at war with Federation. What is the meaning of Pahvans transmitting a signal? Nothing is mentioned after that episode. Nothing is answered, nothing is resolved.
In my opinion they should have hired better writers.
It is not just the writers. They made a big deal out of the map - we, the audience, could track the war by the map. Yet, the map has not changed much since its first appearance. It's the whole thing - the producers, the writers, and the artists - which have fallen short.
That's the purpose of a cliffhanger, to make you wonder what is going on, so you'll tune back in next time.
Cliffhangers need to grab me by the balls with perhaps "fear".
Have the Borg Assimilated Picard and set course for Earth?
Have the Dominion taken Deep Space Nine?
Is a space dolphin screaming out of a vortex intent of eating Kathryn Janeway?
Is there a p52 Mustang opening fire on a shuttle craft thinking it's approaching a safe harbour?
No one is in "immediate" danger, so I am not worried "how will they get out of this fine mess" because I have no idea what fine mess they are in short of a broken satnav.
Dummies who know far less about Star Trek than us might think that they are lost and might just need to ask directions to get home, which is not difficult or dangerous, and barely requiring a tediously nonfantastic real world solution to a real world problem.
Have the Borg Assimilated Picard and set course for Earth?
Have the Dominion taken Deep Space Nine?
Is a space dolphin screaming out of a vortex intent of eating Kathryn Janeway?
Is there a p52 Mustang opening fire on a shuttle craft thinking it's approaching a safe harbour?
No one is in "immediate" danger, so I am not worried "how will they get out of this fine mess" because I have no idea what fine mess they are in short of a broken satnav.
Dummies who know far less about Star Trek than us might think that they are lost and might just need to ask directions to get home, which is not difficult or dangerous, and barely requiring a tediously nonfantastic real world solution to a real world problem.
At the current point of the show, we haven't even gotten as far as the Battle of Savo Island, and USN or other Western losses other than from the initial slaughter (which includes the first weeks and then some mopping-up action) are pretty much a flat zero, as evidenced by that very list. The Prince of Wales and her consort notwithstanding, and apparently the Glenn and her two co-victims more or less correspond to that.
Oh, but they did - not a single one was left afloat there, all having been either sunk or withdrawn. I'm not talking about the irrelevant sideshow at Hawaii: those ships were not "in the region", and didn't get there any time soon, either. (Indeed, most of them never got there: all-new ships built of the old bits got there instead, for pure prestige reasons, and probably weakening the USN war effort at that. But that's beside the point.)
Indeed. It would be intriguing to know what it means for the Klingons to gain control of new regions of space, as suggested by the dotted line. How does a bit of vacuum become Klingon when it used to be Federation? Because it is within the range of operations of Klingon ships? But it surely was that before already, as starships have lots of range. By actively being patrolled by Klingon ships? But they would need millions to achieve that. Is the dotted line the greatest extent of Klingon raids so far? The tripwire at which Starfleet will launch some sort of unspecified action it's not yet engaged in?
I doubt the Klingons would have truck with a Sitzkrieg: they are into this war solely because they want to fight, hardly minding who their opponent is. A strategic wait would not occur to them, surely? They might make zero headway in strategic terms, but they would be running a body count for the sake of a body count, and somehow they aren't managing that.
It seems appropriate to assume Klingons just aren't very good at this thing called war. Which is more or less the point: they have not done the thing for a century or more, not against anybody known to the Feds anyway, not in earnest, and even forcing them to do it just shows how incompetent they are at what they consider their national pastime.
Timo Saloniemi
You haven't heard the reverse theory?
Up till now, Discovery was in a mirror universe, and just now, they are joining prime timeline in the "authentic" TOS era.
I agree. Lorca has 1 the spore drive, 2 Stamets with his interest in the alternative realities and 3 a way to defeat the cloak. He is going somewhere he thinks he can save the Buran.
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