Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x09 - "Into the Forest I Go"

[Guy Gardener]

If Tyler is Voq, that back story of Tyler being raped into submission was devised by Voq and maybe L'Rell.

You're not supposed to blame the victim, but Voq totally did this to himself, he created a narrative, wrote a fictional story, and then chiselled that story into his brain with science, because maybe he wanted to prepunush Tyler ahead of time, for any shenanigans that "the human" might drag his body and soul into.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Really big.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

If Tyler is Voq, that back story of Tyler being raped into submission was devised by Voq and maybe L'Rell.

You're not supposed to blame the victim, but Voq totally did this to himself, because maybe he wanted to prepunush Tyler ahead of time, for any shenanigans that "the human" might drag his body and soul into.

I'm fairly certain that Tyler does not know he is Voq and I have a suspicion that Voq may not have been willing to be altered in the way that he has been, once he found out what was involved. I think he genuinely believes that he was tortured and raped by L'rell. I think his interaction with L'rell at the end might be representative of his programming masquerading as something akin to stockholm syndrome

 

[Dilvish]

No, that's called "war."

I said "ambiguity" not "certainty".

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm fairly certain that Tyler does not know he is Voq and I have a suspicion that Voq may not have been willing to be altered in the way that he has been, once he found out what was involved. I think he genuinely believes that he was tortured and raped by L'rell. I think his interaction with L'rell at the end might be representative of his programming masquerading as something akin to stockholm syndrome

Tyler does not (female deer nasal mucus) know.

Either Voq had the procedure explained to him and he agreed, Voq barely had the procedure explained to him and he agreed, Voq agreed to a proceedure that was not explained to him, Voq agreed to nothing, or the procedure was explained to Voq, he said no, and they did it anyway.

Of the above options, I have faith that he was completely complicit, because Voq is a true believer.

 

[Dilvish]

I don't think the numbers were an issue. The 10,000 just means the Klingons never managed to assault any planets, just destroy vessels.

The number is still low. I would believe it if it were 10,000 in just the first battle.

 

[Slugboy]

Somewhat off-topic, but did anything else notice that the helmswoman, Keyla Detmer, is in the wrong division? As a helm officer, she should be in the command division (like Sulu in TOS, Ensign Mayweather in Enterprise, Tom Paris in Voyager, etc.) with gold uniform piping and a Starfleet emblem with the asymmetrical star, like Lorca and Saru. Instead she has the copper piping and "jointed-curl" emblem of an operations division officer.

Most likely it's just a costuming mistake, though. But it is ever-so-slightly irksome.

 

[Guy Gardener]

She's a driver.

Not management.

 

[Ithekro]

Maybe she's more like Lt. Leslie than Lt. Sulu.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Somewhat off-topic, but did anything else notice that the helmswoman, Keyla Detmer, is in the wrong division? As a helm officer, she should be in the command division (like Sulu in TOS, Ensign Mayweather in Enterprise, Tom Paris in Voyager, etc.) with gold uniform piping and a Starfleet emblem with the asymmetrical star, like Lorca and Saru. Instead she has the copper piping and "jointed-curl" emblem of an operations division officer.

Most likely it's just a costuming mistake, though. But it is ever-so-slightly irksome.

Helm and Navigation were known to wear "copper" in the pilot era.

 

[Slugboy]

She's a driver.
Not management.

Paris, Mayweather and Sulu were all just drivers as well, but they were still all in the command division.

Helm and Navigation were known to wear "copper" in the pilot era.

Interesting. What's worse is the uniform emblems of those pilot-era officers have the "circle-and-oval" pattern, which is used by science personnel in Discovery (i.e. silver-shirts) and science/medical personnel in the TOS era (i.e. blue-shirts---for example, Spock and McCoy have this pattern)

 

[Guy Gardener]

Besides... Helm is a department, not one lady the whole time , 24 hours a day, for the rest of time.

The head of the department is in Command Gold.

The 20 nobodies of low rank, in bronze uniforms, receiving assignments on the duty roster from the head of the division, in charge of the helm, do what they are told, when they are told, by the division head.

The department head may not like Lorca, so maybe that is why they are never on Duty when Lorca is?

 

[Slugboy]

The 20 nobodies of low rank, in bronze uniforms, receiving assignments on the duty roster from the head of the division, in charge of the helm, do what they are told, when they are told, by the division head.

Possibly, though in the TNG era, La Forge wore Command red while a helmsman, and switched to Operations yellow when he transferred to Engineering. Also, when Crusher piloted the helm as a full Ensign, he also wore Command red, even though I doubt he was the head of the helm division. In Voyager we see two helm officers (Ensign Jenkins and Lieutenant (junior grade) Paris) both wearing Command red---they can't both be division head.

Honestly, I think it's just a costuming error. Considering all the other little details they paid careful attention to (like the pulsating Alert displays reminiscent of the one shown for only two seconds in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan), it's entirely forgivable. I just brought it up here because, if there's one place in the world where one can nitpick over tiny Star Trek details, it's TrekBBS.

 

[Ithekro]

24th century Conn and Ops are at least moderately different from 23rd century Helm and Nav. We did have red shirts driving the USS Enterprise from time to time under Kirk's watch.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Dax piloted the Defiant all the time and she was a science officer

 

[Guy Gardener]

Red means that you are on track to being captain, and beyond, learning crew management from different perspectives.

Gold means that you are a specialist learning a skill.

 

[Galaxy]

Somewhat off-topic, but did anything else notice that the helmswoman, Keyla Detmer, is in the wrong division? As a helm officer, she should be in the command division (like Sulu in TOS, Ensign Mayweather in Enterprise, Tom Paris in Voyager, etc.) with gold uniform piping and a Starfleet emblem with the asymmetrical star, like Lorca and Saru. Instead she has the copper piping and "jointed-curl" emblem of an operations division officer.

Most likely it's just a costuming mistake, though. But it is ever-so-slightly irksome.

TOS kinda screwed this up from the beginning, by having Sulu, and Chekov in "command gold" yet Spock wore the regular science division colors, so for any shows following it really is a free for all. The only explanation that really fits, is that officers have some degree of choice in wearing command colors, or their department colors. Helm would thematically fit in with operations.

 

[SPCTRE]

10/10 would hit it again

 

[cultcross]

No, that's called "war."

Which is nothing if not morally ambiguous.

 

[Refuge]

10 out of 10? I'm truly surprised at how anyone would rate this episode a perfect score. Madness.