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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x02 - "Battle at the Binary Stars"

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I realize this might be a nitpick but why do shows always have trials in poorly lit rooms where the judges are hidden in darkness and only the accused is lit up? This episode did this trope too. It reminds me of spy movies where the evil organization has the chamber where the council members are hidden in darkness too. It makes for a cool visual but it is completely unrealistic. No trial chamber would be set up that way. Why not just use a normally lit room?
Star Fleet is at war now, so they're conserving power everywhere? ;)

Seriously, I think it was don e so no one in the audience would focus or speculate on the Officers who sat in judgement of Burnham's actions. <--- Her conviction is a character and plot element and those who sentenced her don't mater. (I say that because had the production shown/named these characters - some members of the audience would have obsessed over who they really were and why they gave Burnham such a harsh sentence.
 
I realize this might be a nitpick but why do shows always have trials in poorly lit rooms where the judges are hidden in darkness and only the accused is lit up? This episode did this trope too. It reminds me of spy movies where the evil organization has the chamber where the council members are hidden in darkness too. It makes for a cool visual but it is completely unrealistic. No trial chamber would be set up that way. Why not just use a normally lit room?

It felt elitist and unbefitting of a judiciary to me.
 
An excellent episode. However, I did have one niggle. Don't know if it has already been discussed up thread, but it didn't make sense to me as to why Micheal didn't just also have the injured T'Kuvma beamed aboard the Shenzhou as per their original plan. That would have resulted in T'Kuvma's shame and ended the war before it started. Instead, everything played neatly into T'Kuvma's hands even though he is dying.
 
This was deffinitly the better of the two, but that was mainly because of the hieght in action. I loved the attention t odeveloping the tensions and battle between the Klingons and the Federation, I like how the second episode showed flashbacks of both Michael and T'Kumva, and while i knew it was only a guest appearnce I was said when both Phillipa and T'Kumva died, there was alot of investment put in them.

I also throughly enjoyed all moments with Sarek.

Kudos to the cast and crew who made this possible, thanks guys!
 
An excellent episode. However, I did have one niggle. Don't know if it has already been discussed up thread, but it didn't make sense to me as to why Micheal didn't just also have the injured T'Kuvma beamed aboard the Shenzhou as per their original plan. That would have resulted in T'Kuvma's shame and ended the war before it started. Instead, everything played neatly into T'Kuvma's hands even though he is dying.
Because her past trauma caused by the Klingons, and what just happened to her Captain, affected her to the point that killing T'Kuvma was revenge. I don't think she thought much beyond a moment of hatred, anger, and vengeance.
 
It seems clear to me now that I've watched both episodes twice that you really can't / shouldn't judge one without the other. It really should have been shown as a (roughly) two-hour continuous piece.

Interesting that on "After Trek" the producer said that this was basically the "prologue" and that Ep. 3 is their "pilot / 1st episode."
 
An excellent episode. However, I did have one niggle. Don't know if it has already been discussed up thread, but it didn't make sense to me as to why Micheal didn't just also have the injured T'Kuvma beamed aboard the Shenzhou as per their original plan. That would have resulted in T'Kuvma's shame and ended the war before it started. Instead, everything played neatly into T'Kuvma's hands even though he is dying.
That's a really good point I hadn't considered. She couldn't take Georgiou because apparently being dead makes you invisible to the transporter. T'Kuvma was still alive, and within reach.
 
Because her past trauma caused by the Klingons, and what just happened to her Captain, affected her to the point that killing T'Kuvma was revenge. I don't think she thought much beyond a moment of hatred, anger, and vengeance.

I can buy that. Still a trained Starfleet First Officer who also has the benefit of Vulcan emotional training should more focused on the job at hand, and mourn/avenge later. Anyway, it's a small nitpick.

I enjoyed the pacey nature of both episodes, the ship internal visuals looked good without seeming dated and without seeming to surpass DS9/Voy. The quippy dialogue also is in keeping with this day and age.
 
Having rewatched the episodes again, I think I like them better than I did the first time around, and i gave them high marks then.

The biggest problem I had originally was understanding the Klingons and the pacing of their scenes. Looking at the visuals, the design of their ship and costumes, while trying to read their dialogue with the overlapping stilted Klingonee made the first viewing tough (and I don't normally mind subtitles; but then they are generally something like Spanish speakers standing around in an apartment on 21st century earth - I know what Spanish speakers and an apartment look like so I can focus on the dialogue). The second time around it was all much better, I didn't have as much problem with the pacing and the motivations, positions, and emotions of the Klingons came through better. The stilted Klingonee is still an issue.

Biggest takeaway the second time through - I am really looking forward to seeing the characters again (Saru, Michael, and hopefully Georgiou in flashbacks) and seeing the new Discovery crew. While everything else is nice (the visuals, the Federation designs), the best parts so far for me are the main characters.
 
Having rewatched the episodes again, I think I like them better than I did the first time around, and i gave them high marks then.

The biggest problem I had originally was understanding the Klingons and the pacing of their scenes. Looking at the visuals, the design of their ship and costumes, while trying to read their dialogue with the overlapping stilted Klingonee made the first viewing tough (and I don't normally mind subtitles; but then they are generally something like Spanish speakers standing around in an apartment on 21st century earth - I know what Spanish speakers and an apartment look like so I can focus on the dialogue). The second time around it was all much better, I didn't have as much problem with the pacing and the motivations, positions, and emotions of the Klingons came through better. The stilted Klingonee is still an issue.

Biggest takeaway the second time through - I am really looking forward to seeing the characters again (Saru, Michael, and hopefully Georgiou in flashbacks) and seeing the new Discovery crew. While everything else is nice (the visuals, the Federation designs), the best parts so far for me are the main characters.

I agree that, upon a re-watch, I liked it much better (even though I enjoyed it the first time).

Now that I was just focused on the characters and the story...and not trying to absorb every little detail, it was a much smoother, easier experience.
 
Loved both episodes so much.....! Watched them last night, and it was so much to take in... loved the visuals, loved the acting, the characters, the rendition of the Theme during the scene where the Klingon bodies are being brought back to the Klingon ship, so so much.. I'm guessing the real story (on the Discovery) is yet to unfold, and this was all set-up... loved it!!
 
This I did have a problem with. They have, what, ten episodes or so to show us they understand Trek. Right now they showed us they understand the general audiance who lined up for JJ Trek.

I don't think that's a reasonable thing to say. The entire premise of Season One's arc is that it is about a war, and about a woman who helped start that war and her journey towards redemption. You don't do a war story without, y'know, combat.

I didn't mention this in my comment above, but while I like Burnham, the mutiny bothered me to no end. In Trek of old there would be dialogue, set up and lots of wrestling with such a choice.

You mean like when Spock hijacked the Enterprise to return Captain Pike to Talos IV?

But here she's just like "fuck it, I'm doing this". A reflection of the state of the ADHD style modern audiences who care not for nuance.

I think that's a really elitist argument to make. There is plenty of nuance to Burnham's character already, and the fact that the character chose to act instead of giving a hackneyed fifteen-minute speech does not mean that this is bad writing.

Let's be real here: This is the era of prestigue television whose quality far surpasses what used to be accomplished on TV. To say that "modern audiences don't care for nuance" is to totally ignore the impact of such complicated, nuanced, thoughtful programs as The Sopranos, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, The Handmaid's Tale, Downton Abby, or Game of Thrones.

My biggest fear is that Trek, starting with the JJ movies and continuing her, is "just another franchise" now, not unlike what Star Wars has become. Trek lasted as long as it did (like Star Wars as well) because it has that element to it that set it apart from all the rest. So far this show lacks it.

Name me another show where the central emotional conflict of the very first episode is between a jingoist and a diplomat, and the jingoist is depicted as being in the wrong.

Star Trek: Discovery is living up to Star Trek’s progressive legacy just fine.

I can't help but feel that an Starfleet First Officer of 7 years experience wouldn't switch her phaser to kill in anger. That and her mutiny undermined the character for me.

Burnham is not a perfect person, and her lasting emotional trauma over what Klingon raiders did to her family has a very real impact on who she is and what choices she makes—and comes to regret.

Jail makes sense. Life imprisonment is a step too far. Even Sweden doesn't usually do life imprisonment. Drum her out of the service (of course) and send her to prison for a decade or two.

It does seem excessive. On the other hand, so does sentencing someone to death for going to Talos IV. On the other hand, maybe if the Federation is facing a war that could kill billions of people because of Burnham’s actions, to them it feels proportionate.

The issue with the end wasn't just that she was given life, but that, in an a supposed enlightened society, her rights of due process where thinly adhered to--even for a military. [Serious this time.]

She had no JAG representative when she offered her plea. And she gave it to a judicial bored of flag officers and not in front of a proper court and panel of members.

I don’t think we know enough to say that she didn’t have due process or counsel. We only saw the very end of the hearing; it is entirely possible that she had counsel and chose to waive most of the hearing and go straight to sentencing after pleading guilty.

I’m curious about your remark re: a board of flag officers vs. proper court and panel of members. Isn’t the use of a board of flag officers consistent with what TOS, TNG, and DS9 all depicted of Federation Starfleet courts-martial?

And let's not forget, saying her actions started a war is BS. The only thing she did was defend herself.

Targeting weapons and getting ready to fire may well have been what set T’Kuvma off and made him decide to fire first. We (and the characters) will probably never know.

The only thing Burnham was guilty of was attacking a senior officer. (Even mutiny is a hard sell.)

Mutiny is a perfectly reasonable charge; she attempted to usurp control of the ship from its commanding officer and to issue orders directly in conflict with the standing orders the captain had given.

The first two episodes just upended canon.

CHEKOV: Has there ever been a mutiny on a starship before?
SPOCK: Absolutely no record of such an occurrence, Ensign.
-"The Tholian Web"

Others have pointed out the numerous times TOS had already depicted mutiny before that episode. I’ll just add that this is an incredibly minor continuity violation that really doesn’t matter.

And, I learned from an interview, that the third episode can be seen as a second pilot for the series, with us being introduced to the Discovery. Couldn't we have started with this episode, with us getting a summary of what transpired in the first two episodes?

I mean, we could have started Game of Thrones with Joffrey already on the Iron Throne and the War of the Five Kings already underway. That’s not the story they wanted to tell. And I suspect that the story we see unfolding in episodes 3 through 15 will be far more meaningful for having learned so much about Burnham and Georgiou and life aboard the Shenzhou.

Yup. I had a real problem as well with the idea that her example from Vulcan history was a viable reason to disobey orders. It was 100 years since the Klingons were last encountered. What makes her think they still act the same way as then?

The fact that she has unresolved trauma from losing her family to Klingon raiders, obviously. She’s not being rational; she’s just pretending she is.

Star Fleet is at war now, so they're conserving power everywhere?
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Yeah, the lighting scheme in the court-martial sequence makes no sense if we take it as a Realistic/Naturalistic depiction of what that courtroom looked like.

I don’t. I take it as symbolic of Burnham’s internal emotional state. She’s all alone, the harsh light of judgment cast upon her by shadowy and unsympathetic strangers.

I agree that, upon a re-watch, I liked it much better (even though I enjoyed it the first time).

Now that I was just focused on the characters and the story...and not trying to absorb every little detail, it was a much smoother, easier experience.

I think that’s generally the best way to watch any work of televisual or filmatic art. ;)
 
This I did have a problem with. They have, what, ten episodes or so to show us they understand Trek. Right now they showed us they understand the general audiance who lined up for JJ Trek.
That's funny. My thought is they understood it too well and at times the pilot was a little too "inside baseball" for the general audience. :lol:
 
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That's funny. My thought they understood it too well and at times the pilot was a little too "inside baseball" for the general audience. :lol:
This. Granted, it's on a streaming service so it can afford to cater, but still, very much inside Trek.
 
didn't mention this in my comment above, but while I like Burnham, the mutiny bothered me to no end. In Trek of old there would be dialogue, set up and lots of wrestling with such a choice. But here she's just like "fuck it, I'm doing this". A reflection of the state of the ADHD style modern audiences who care not for nuance.

You mean like when Spock hijacked the Enterprise to return Captain Pike to Talos IV?
Yeah, almost the entire episode is a set up for Michael's mutiny. A lot of discussion between Burnham, Anderson and Georgiou about how to handle the Klingons. Michael talking with both mentors/surrogate parents. Backstory about her relationship with the Klingons. Not really seeing how anyone could say there was no wrestling.
In contrast, Spock's mutiny was set up in the teaser. The wrestling was a line or two of dialog.
 
The first two episodes mentioned phase cannons, Donatu V, Kahless the Unforgettable and the founding species of the Federation. That's not aiming at the JJ audience. That's aiming at the longtime and hardcore fan who knows what the hell a phase cannon and Donatu V are to begin with.

Sure, the effects and many of the sets are more in line with the Kelvin timeline but that was just an aesthetic choice to make the show look more snazzy and give modern audiences what they expect in modern Hollywood productions about human space travel set in the future. The meat of the scripts, though, was very much catering to the longtime fan who's been watching for years if not decades. It wasn't "Dumb Trek." It was Star Trek on a modern budget.
 
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