Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x02 - "Battle at the Binary Stars"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Commander Richard, Sep 24, 2017.

?

Rate the episode...

  1. 10 - Awesome!

    16.7%
  2. 9

    15.4%
  3. 8

    27.9%
  4. 7

    14.7%
  5. 6

    9.3%
  6. 5

    5.1%
  7. 4

    2.6%
  8. 3

    3.8%
  9. 2

    1.9%
  10. 1 - Terrible!

    2.6%
  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    And the the Suliban cell Ship that was in the NX-01's hold for 4 years?

    They got it in the pilot, and then we saw it again 2 years later in the Communicator.

    Although, considering Trip accidentally invisiblized his arm that episode, shouldn't that week have called "the invisible hand" or "The invisible touch" or "how to make it seem like you're not masturbating, when you're masturbating"??
     
  2. Samuel

    Samuel Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2017
    If the British battleship the HMS dreadnought was transported to the 21st century would modern naval officers not be able to understand the ships big guns?
     
  3. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
    If they were written by modern television writers? Probably not. :p
     
    Samuel likes this.
  4. Ovation

    Ovation Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    La Belle Province
    After the fleet was decimated. Highly unlikely she's experienced anything remotely as stressful as that battle, so her trauma can easily explain her actions.

    One thing this new Trek hasn't shown us (admittedly a tiny sample size) is "the perfect officer". And while I have many complaints about the two episodes, this isn't one of them. I view the imperfect characters as refreshing--much as I did the Kents in Man of Steel. No paragons of virtue to be found.

    I think Starfleet has become complacent in this iteration and that complacency was on full display with Georgiou and Admiral What's his face. A Kirk stands out with his ability to adapt in a way senior officers seem unprepared to do and that sets him apart. But that's hardly the only way to tell a story. Burnham may end up being an interesting character for her path of redemption rather than being "the best _______ in the fleet". Nothing wrong with such an approach.

    Guess we'll see how well TPTB can tell such a story.
     
  5. nutshell

    nutshell Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2017
    Scattered contacts over a hundred years. Not much to go on. Also, at that point, the Klingons had yet to show any aggression whatsoever.
     
  6. Samuel

    Samuel Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2017
    Starfleet is always complacent. This is the same organization that thought about junking their military forces after Praxis blew up and halted work on the Defiant class ships because the Borg threat somehow "receded". Oh yeah, how did that work out.

    The only fictional organization I can think of as worse was on Babylon Five. Earthforce "We handled the Dilgar. We can handle the Minbari".
     
    137th Gebirg and Noname Given like this.
  7. Dr. Bashirs protege

    Dr. Bashirs protege Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2016
    UDC is my absolute favourite trek movie. And yet everytime I hear about them basically going "well Klingons are gone, no need for self defense!!" I feel like punching something. It's soooooo stupid. I mean it's almost like if Canada after world war 2 disbanded the third largest navy in the world because they thought they wouldn't need it anymore....oh wait....(look it up)
     
    Longinus, Mirror_Barclay and Samuel like this.
  8. Quinton O'Connor

    Quinton O'Connor Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Location:
    Durham, NC
    Yeah, that line is very bad. "Mothball the Starfleet?" What in seven hecks. (I love that movie, too.)
     
    cooleddie74 and Samuel like this.
  9. Noname Given

    Noname Given Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 22, 2001
    Location:
    Noname Given
    One Torpedo SHOULD cause MASSIVE damage to any ship with its defenses down. IMO - over the years they have really weakened these weapons across the board. One torpedo should be a massive threat if your defenses aren't up. The ship wasn't 'weak' or 'in bad shape' - T'Kuvma did not expect that level of guile from a Federation Captain and he paid for it.
     
    Samuel, Sci, Gonzo and 2 others like this.
  10. rahullak

    rahullak Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Yes, and one could argue that given T'Kuvma's betrayal of agreeing to a ceasefire and using that as a ruse to ram the Admiral's ship with one of his cloaked ships, tilted the scales in favor of no-holds-barred, and any and all conventions of war ceased to be relevant; hence Georgiou and the transported torpedo.
     
    Kenobiwan85 and OpenMaw like this.
  11. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    5. Lost interest a bit half way through.
     
  12. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
    Considering the aggression of the Klingons and their ships opening fire after the fleet warped in, Burnham and Georgiou did the right thing with the torpedo warhead. Frankly, most other Starfleet captains in the Trek franchise would have done the same or something very similar in order to turn the tide of a battle and win.
     
    Samuel and Grendelsbayne like this.
  13. theblitz

    theblitz Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2011
    Location:
    Israel
    Na.
    Worst was Senator Kinsey in SG-1 "Politics":
    "Then I think they'll (the Goa'uld) regret taking on the United States military."
     
    Samuel and Quinton O'Connor like this.
  14. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    I'm not quite sure what should be "wrong" about all this cruel stuff going on here. I mean, it may be a contested point of law and everything, but it's still everyday practice here and now, and people only ever get prosecuted over it as publicity stunts.

    Hollywood always justifies hero violence by making the perpetrator the underdog. All the militaries of the world do the very same thing, down to the superpower ones. The US is always under attack, Russia has but defended herself for centuries or millennia, China cannot afford not to keep internal unrest from being flamed by evil outside agents. Hollywood has it easy with the heroes facing enemies the size of small moons; it's much more difficult not to look ridiculous playing victim down here on Earth.

    I'd expect DSC to feature lots of talk about justification. After all, that's the gig of the central character - she isn't short on means (she even gets a supership despite being prisoner for life), she's short on means of telling herself the absolute right from the absolute wrong (her Vulcan logic makes this damned difficult). Hearing it out ought to be fun, across dozens of episodes if need be.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  15. OpenMaw

    OpenMaw Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Location:
    Everett, Washington
    Indeed. Klingons have a recurring trait of ego that get's the comeuppance. One is closing to point-blank range for a killing shot, often allow their target the chance to attack first.

    And yeah, back in the days of TOS and TWOK, torpedos on an unshielded target were straight up devastating. Just look at Elaan of Troyius when the Enterprise hit's a SHIELDED Klingon vessel at point blank range and cripples it.

    I honestly don't see the problem with the ambush. No, it's not the most heroic move, but the alternative is thousands more dead. The Federation colony/outpost that was apparently now vulnerable was a GREAT concern here. In the words of John Wayne, send em to Hell!
     
  16. cultcross

    cultcross Postponed for the snooker Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2001
    Location:
    UK
    I don't agree at all, either about her being right, or about Georgiou being an idiot - in that respect. I do think Georgiou was a character with big ideals and lacked the competence to enact them. She wasn't inherently a good Captain, either in her risk averseness to explore an unknown object, or in her actions in a crisis - locking onto the torchbearer, dismissing withdrawal as an option out of hand but refusing to fire first, etc. But I don't think she was an idiot to reject a course of action which was fully contrary to her principles, especially from an officer clearly coming from an emotional position.
     
  17. starri

    starri Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Wouldn't the fact that Sarek entrusted Michael to her go against that?
     
  18. Rhodan

    Rhodan Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    I think I am sentenced to be in the middle about everything new. This two-part´s story was mostly contrivance to make cool battle and to make Federation and Klingons starting the war. And neither side felt like having any depth. Nevertheless, I liked the character representation, some dialogue and despite how little substance the plot had, I felt this is something what was Enterprise desparately trying to be and never suceeded.

    Also, I don´t exactly like Nemesis, but don´t you now feel how greatly it foreshadowed future incarnations of Trek?
     
  19. Zeppster

    Zeppster Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    It still doesn't feel like Trek to me. It's using some characters and language and objects that are vaguely trek but it's not really substantive. This episode is better because we get less Burnham. Who is easily the worst main character in Trek. As bad as Archer was as a main character I can't completely hate Scott Bakula very long. His charisma is enough to at least not completely hate a very badly written character. Also he didn't pull of a mutiny that ended up starting a war just because she talked to a Vulcan. Most of the crew were just serviceable and there. Villains are kinda the same. You can't even recognize them as Klingons as we know them. I'm not sure who we as the audience are really supposed to like in all of it.

    Not a particularly good start so far.
     
    Mad Jack Wolfe and Samuel like this.
  20. EyalM

    EyalM Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Location:
    Haifa
    I don't think Picard, for example, would have acted differently. He wasn't the type to fire first either. He even didn't fight back on occasion.
     
    Samuel, Grendelsbayne and Longinus like this.