Some parents are hypocrites when it comes to their own children. How many live by the 'do as I say, not what I do' mantra. Sarek is a perfect example. Michael is not his child, but his ward.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x01 - "The Vulcan Hello"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Some parents are hypocrites when it comes to their own children. How many live by the 'do as I say, not what I do' mantra. Sarek is a perfect example. Michael is not his child, but his ward.
Well, it wasnt bad, but it wasn't very good either.
So far, don't really care about the Klingons (never have actually). I liked Georgio, Burnham and Saru.
Visually stunning, story was OK.
Don't know if it was wise to keep the USS Discovery and its' crew out of the first two episodes completely.
And oh yes, Klingons should just speak English. I found it rather boring listening to them speaking Klingon all the time.
So far, don't really care about the Klingons (never have actually). I liked Georgio, Burnham and Saru.
Visually stunning, story was OK.
Don't know if it was wise to keep the USS Discovery and its' crew out of the first two episodes completely.
And oh yes, Klingons should just speak English. I found it rather boring listening to them speaking Klingon all the time.
Federation starships have energy shielding by the 2250s, and in both timelines. Polarizing the hull plating likely went out as soon as the first starships and other vessels commissioned and launched by the new Federation were equipped with shield technology. I can't imagine too many frontline ships were without shield generators by the time the 23rd century rolled around.
(*Cameroning intensifies*)
My fiance said it was unusual how the different departments are not separated into colour groups.
Which puts them closer to Enterprise than the Cage.
Which puts them closer to Enterprise than the Cage.
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Then they should have the guts to call it a reboot. Say it's not in either the Abrams or the Prime universes. It's its own thing. That's enough to end continuity issues.
If this is how they're going to characterize it, then it would make it a pretty high priority for me that she come to realize over the course of her period of redemption that this is what happened, that she was suffering an emotional breakdown, and that she was full-stop wrong to attempt a mutiny and deploy that much deadly force and to risk the lives of countless millions, all on her own authority and just on a hunch. If on the other hand it reduces in the end to a pat she was right and everyone else was wrong, then that's probably not going to work for me.
And, just to be clear, it's entirely possible that she was right that this is what the Klingons need, but that wouldn't change how wrong she was to go about things the way she did. Sarek said that part of the pattern two centuries ago was that the first Vulcan ship was destroyed. She may have been trying to avoid being like that first Vulcan ship, clearly. But the way she went about it, she sacrificed the organizational integrity necessary to give everyone on the Federation's side the chance to see things the same way and realize that the Vulcan Hello is what is necessary to deal with the Klingons, organizational integrity that would help everyone on the Federation side have a clear view of who was in the right versus who was in the wrong, something necessary as part of mobilizing for war. She muddied the waters. It was her duty to note her objections to the captain's orders, and why, but to carry out her lawful orders.
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TMP was much closer to the show then this. The big changes were the bridge color palette and the uniforms. All updates. This show no longer resembles that.
The entire bridge was replaced in TMP. That bridge set would be used for years to come, for various things. The ship design, uniforms, Klingon makeup and wardrobe, and entire look of Starfleet changed, and that was in three in-universe years. It was as much of a visual reboot as this is. If you'd put a new cast as well into TMP, it would have looked like something totally different was being made.
So Sarek being a psychologically abusive hypocrite is just fine?
How is hypocrisy a logical thing?
Okay, it's a good thing they don't appear to have milkmen on Vulcan, or I'd be starting to think that in another life Sarek's name was T'Evye, and he had five daughters: The eldest married a poor tailor (after rejecting the much-older butcher, who was her father's age), the second married a communist who supported overthrowing T'Pau, the third married a human, and we never got around to the last two since they were so young and the movie ended with T'Evye's family having to pack up and move anyway since a pogrom happened and the Surak-following Vulcans were under orders to leave the planet or be killed/sent to S'Iberia, which is located on Vulcan's twin planet).
Question: Can the Sarek-actor in this new show sing? Can he dance? Could he do justice to "If I Were a Rich Man" and "L'Chaim"? Would he sing and dance with a tavern full of humans?
Fun fan trivia: Some fanfic (ie. the stuff linked in my sig) has hypothesized that Amanda's family was Jewish and Amanda secretly gave Spock the human name of "Daniel"). Another fun fact: Leonard Nimoy played Tevye in a production of "Fiddler On the Roof."
Question: Can the Sarek-actor in this new show sing? Can he dance? Could he do justice to "If I Were a Rich Man" and "L'Chaim"? Would he sing and dance with a tavern full of humans?
Fun fan trivia: Some fanfic (ie. the stuff linked in my sig) has hypothesized that Amanda's family was Jewish and Amanda secretly gave Spock the human name of "Daniel"). Another fun fact: Leonard Nimoy played Tevye in a production of "Fiddler On the Roof."
The difference between my fanfic-ish sidetrack above and Sarek, however, is that while Tevye the milkman is a stern and tradition-minded man, he's neither emotionally/psychologically abusive nor a hypocrite - no matter how dicey life gets for the Jews in pre-Revolution Russia. The story almost literally drags him from unbending never-question-Tradition to a more modern way of thinking when his three oldest daughters decide they want to marry whom they choose... even if the youngest one chooses a Christian over a Jew.
Besides... Spock eventually does follow in his father's footsteps and becomes an ambassador. Did it help? Not really. Sarek and Spock don't seem to have regained the warm, fuzzy relationship they had at the end of the fourth TOS movie. It took a mindmeld with Picard to let Spock know that his father really did love him, but was too traditional to say so.
So Sarek was pre-judging Spock, in spite of Spock never having given any indication up until then that he would do any such thing. Yep, Sarek spoke truly in Star Trek III: His logic falters where his son is concerned... not always in a positive way.
This still makes no sense to me. Were T'Pring and T'Pau also princesses? Was Sarek a prince? Was Spock? Who were the kings and queens? Or maybe T'Pau was the Queen of Vulcan?
There's a fanfic series in which their Clan is revealed to own basically half of Vulcan, including the spaceport, the capital city, and Vulcan starship manufacturing companies, not to mention they're the hereditary rulers of Vulcan, but that's 1970s fanfic. The idea of Spock having any sort of sibling is also something first written in 1970s fanfic.
Looks like the pros are running out of ideas if they have to borrow from 45-year-old fanfic stories.
Or do an eyeroll, since as far as I could tell (having exhausted my patience with the damn subtitles), no Jack the Ripper things were going on.
Sorry, no it's not a reboot. The writers have said it's the Prime timeline and now we see that it is in fact the Primetime line. It fits right in. Yes, the window dressing has been updated, but that does not mean it's a different timeline. They're just using modern techniques so the show appeals to modern audiences.
As for Sarek, apparently he was like that back in his younger days. I guess he changed later. People do that you know. Maybe the events of this season will shed light on that. We'll see.
Nope.
If that makes you feel better, sure. View it however you like. But, that's not what it is.
You're lack of a counterpoint has been noted and logged though. You've got nothing.
If the writers had My Little Ponies floating around and still called it "Prime" would you agree with them then? Discovery simply doesn't fit, not in style nor tone. It is the problem with trying to do a prequel to a fifty year old show. Times change, acting styles change, society changes, technology changes.
So all you're really doing is a checklist of names and dates.
I'm not talking about visuals. I'm talking about the world we live in, the society we now are, the differing experiences of writers and the world they inhabit fifty years apart. A difference in acting styles, audience expectations.
I don't give a shit about names and dates.
It's the same freaking timeline. The writers have said this and the story is entirely consistent with it. Like I said, if you feel better pretending it's a reboot, go right ahead, but it's not really that. Same timeline with update window dressing.
Some things have changed because the existing canon didn't fit the look of a 2017 TV show and some minor things got in the way of the stories the producers want to tell.
That is not a reboot. It's just adding some inconsistencies which has always happened in Star Trek. The world and Canon has never been consistent. Nor does it have to be.
That is not a reboot. It's just adding some inconsistencies which has always happened in Star Trek. The world and Canon has never been consistent. Nor does it have to be.
Ah, but then you get arguments over which Pony universe is canon too, since there are 4.5 generations. Or their new movie visual reboot this year...
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