Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x01 - "The Vulcan Hello"

[Locutus of Bored]

Where did you see me saying that everyone had to agree with me?

Here:
"I really don't understand the negativity.
"I also don't get the comments about it being boring or having bad acting."

Is that not saying there's something invalid about those opinions? It's not a big deal, but after your thread last week you seem to have some difficulty with people not sharing your opinion.

 

[Ensign Ogahd Ahmganadai]

Here:
"I really don't understand the negativity.
"I also don't get the comments about it being boring or having bad acting."

Is that not saying there's something invalid about those opinions? It's not a big deal, but after your thread last week you seem to have some difficulty with people not sharing your opinion.

I don't understand, but I do realize people will have different reactions than I did. I may not understand, but that is different from saying their opinions are invalid.

In the "time to come out" thread, I posted my negative view of Voyager. One of the first responses to me told me I was "crazy". That is very, very different than "I don't understand the negativity".

That said, I didn't even have a problem being told "you're crazy" for not liking a show someone else loved. I just took it as "I don't agree". In fact, this is what I said in response:

Suffice it to say I couldn't disagree more. But this is the thread for admitting opinions that might not be popular. This is why, despite numerous posters saying they hate Deep Space Nine as much as I hate Voyager, I silently moved on. I think DS9 was the absolute best series of the franchise, but then, to each their own.

If I was really the kind of person you believe I am, I don't think I would have responded that way.

 

[Trekker4747]

Nothing about Discovery ever indicated that it was going to be an "exploration" show, so if that's what you were expecting , the fault lies in your expectations and not the series itself.

Yeah. I mean, who turns into Star Trek to see a space-exploration show about the bright aspects and achievements of humanity while out in the wonders of space seeking out strange new worlds, life, and civilizations?

Pfft! This is a space show so it can ONLY deal with grim realities, war, battles and angst.

 

[PKerr]

I just watched both episodes and I'm kinda mixed, I can't stand the new look of the Klingons, they all look the same to me and the Klingon language also sounds like it changed, it sounds like gibberish and it sounds like the actors are reading it off of cue cards, in the previous shows the language "flowed" better.
I love the look of the ships and some of the visuals but this also make me wonder why in the heck did they pick this time frame? Why paint yourself into a corner of 10 years before Kirk?
The tech is far advanced for it to be 10 years before TOS why not just pick 100 years after TNG and have a completely blank slate to play with?
In the first two episodes we've also seen 5-6 (maybe more) different species we've never seen on any of the shows, again 100 years after TNG would let you create whatever you wish without alienating purist.

 

[rahullak]

Well, I think they chose 10 years before Kirk so that they could re-introduce some existing characters, have a touch with canon and at the same time also have new fans of the Kelvin movies jump aboard and try Discovery as well. The decision's probably driven as much by story-telling opportunities as also by viewership and marketability. Also, there are more non-purists than purists, so the needs of the many outweigh.

 

[queerTrekker]

I thoughly enjoyed the first episode .I particularly enjoyed the visuals, the amazing new opening, the acting, the cinematography (such as utilizing different colour filters and set designs of Shenzou and the Klingon ship to emphazize the two alien cultures/enviorments from each other, yet retaining just enough similarities so as not to isolate them form each other).

The dynamic and dialouge between Michael and Saru in particular was excellent, and one of my fav character byplays so far.

It was a nice blend of old and new elements.

 

[Ometiklan]

We must have been watching two different things. Yeoh was really bad in this. It wasn't all her fault. The dialog was really poorly written.
Many of the visuals are overly crowded and messy. The ship CGI is bad and looks cheap. The color palette is bland.

Yeah, it looks like we were watching different shows.

... And why would they even let their two highest ranking officers go on an away mission alone together. This would drive Riker stark raving mad...

Actually, it's entirely possible that Star Trek: Discovery could have decent ratings and still not make the ratings necessary to justify its budget. The show could be a ratings and critical success and still be a financial disaster. Plenty of good shows with strong fan bases and critical acclaim have died because they were too expensive.

Yeah, the whole mutiny thing surprised me in a bad way. It felt unearned, and it made no sense for a person brought up as a Vulcan to make a decision that was so impulsive and poorly thought out. She had absolutely no plan whatsoever. Ironically, it would have made more sense if she was half Vulcan, because then she'd have her strong Vulcan emotions to suppress. A pure human trained in logic from childhood would probably have a cooler head in those circumstances. I would have liked to have seen a more carefully planned mutiny, with the climax being that Burnham almost gets away with it until Georgiou comes onto the bridge, still shaking off the effects of some kind of drug or something, and stuns her with a phaser just as she turns around to see her.

First, this is TOS timeframe. Captains, first officers, CMOs, and chief engineers routinely beamed down to conflict zones. It's part of Starfleet in this era.

Second, Netflix has covered the cost of the first season's production for CBS. What will decide Discovery's fate (at least via Netflix's fee) is whether Netflix finds it is getting enough interest and eyeballs globally to make the fee worth it. And if they don't, even then CBS might find another worldwide delivery option.

Third, Burnham's actions were sensible because she was reacting due to her PTSD based on the attack that killed her parents. Yeah, her reaction wasn't logical, but that is the whole point. She was reacting illogically due to emotional stress, but it fits the character as established.

...
- Plot was full of cliches.
- Actions made little sense most of the time.
...Instead of fun dialogue, interesting character dynamics and new ideas.

I think the actions portrayed made total sense. Yeah, there were a couple of things that could have been done differently (sending two people in EVA suits to survey the object, for safety; not 'mutinying' in a crisis with only moments to act to avoid war), but those options were dealt with via dialogue or sensible for the characters in the moment. If you have specifics that you think are non-sensible, I would like to hear them. I saw nothing similar to the end-to-end non-sensible actions of Star Trek Into Darkness.

...Why paint yourself into a corner of 10 years before Kirk?
The tech is far advanced for it to be 10 years before TOS why not just pick 100 years after TNG and have a completely blank slate to play with?
In the first two episodes we've also seen 5-6 (maybe more) different species we've never seen on any of the shows, again 100 years after TNG would let you create whatever you wish without alienating purist.

Yeah, the purists hate these things, but they aren't really problems. So what if the visuals are updated to reflect modern ideas about future tech? The setting chosen was important to the story being told - uniting the Klingon empire and questions of unity wouldn't fit in a post-TNG universe where we have been allied with them for more than a century with so much integration.
Finally, I will never understand the issue with "but we never saw X alien in later shows!" That makes no sense. There are literally thousands of aliens living within travel distance of Earth, even if you put 10 unique alien species in each episode of 24th century Star Trek, you wouldn't cover them all. Saying these new species can't exist reminds me of "'lack of evidence is not evidence of lack'.

 

[Gojira]

I just watched both episodes and I'm kinda mixed, I can't stand the new look of the Klingons, they all look the same to me and the Klingon language also sounds like it changed, it sounds like gibberish and it sounds like the actors are reading it off of cue cards, in the previous shows the language "flowed" better.
I love the look of the ships and some of the visuals but this also make me wonder why in the heck did they pick this time frame? Why paint yourself into a corner of 10 years before Kirk?
The tech is far advanced for it to be 10 years before TOS why not just pick 100 years after TNG and have a completely blank slate to play with?
In the first two episodes we've also seen 5-6 (maybe more) different species we've never seen on any of the shows, again 100 years after TNG would let you create whatever you wish without alienating purist.

The TOS era (give or take 10 years) is one of the most well known eras of Trek and whenever writers and producers want to tell stories from this time period they are never going to make it look like it did in the 1960s. Just because they will never make a show or movie with 1960s aesthetics's does mean they should stay away from that era of Star Trek.

 

[Vger23]

The TOS era (give or take 10 years) is one of the most well known eras of Trek and whenever writers and producers want to tell stories from this time period they are never going to make it look like it did in the 1960s. Just because they will never make a show or movie with 1960s aesthetics's does mean they should stay away from that era of Star Trek.

Most people who complain about the aesthetics / tech not matching pre-TOS aren't really concerned with the aesthetics / tech not matching pre-TOS. They're people who desperately wanted a post-Nemesis timeframe setting, and use that complaint to either overtly or covertly poo-poo the current series with hopes that they will someday get what they want.

 

[Trekfan12]

I was thinking about the Vulcan neck pinch Michael performed. And remembered how Leonard Nimoy explained how the Vulcan Neck pinch worked. And why humans shouldn't be able to do it (at least from the way he described it) This is from wikipedia. I also saw a show where Leonard explained it exactly this way.

Leonard Nimoy, who portrayed the Vulcan science officer Spock, conceived the maneuver in the early days of the original Star Trek series.[1]The script for “The Enemy Within” stated that Spock "kayoes" Captain Kirk’s duplicate,[2] but Nimoy—who opposed the Vietnam War and supported Eugene McCarthy[3]—felt that such a brutal action would be undignified for a Vulcan. He therefore invented an alternative by suggesting that Vulcans have the ability to project telepathic energy from their fingertips similar to "the Vulcan Mind Meld", which, if applied to a nerve cluster correctly, could render a human unconscious. Allegedly, the director of the episode did not understand the idea when Nimoy explained it to him, but William Shatner understood immediately and reacted in exactly the way Nimoy had hoped when they executed the move during filming, explaining that it would be similar to "feeling an electrical charge."

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Nothing about Discovery ever indicated that it was going to be an "exploration" show, so if that's what you were expecting , the fault lies in your expectations and not the series itself.

Nothing but the name of the franchise, the title of the show, the name of the lead ship, and the fact that it was described as having a revolutionary new drive system that would be "a whole new way to fly."

 

[tomalak301]

Nothing but the name of the franchise, the title of the show, the name of the lead ship, and the fact that it was described as having a revolutionary new drive system that would be "a whole new way to fly."

I’m looking forward to the whole new way to fly angle. Heck I hope they develop this universe. I don’t make a big deal out of canon but I wonder what kind of exploratory themes will be covered in this series.

 

[Logopolis]

Nah, Encounter at Farpoint was actually dull. This one, while a little clunky in spots, was still entertaining.

I must admit...

Watched them both again, I like it.

It's grown on me because I know what i'm looking for this time around and the Mass Effect effect isn't as distracting. By that, I mean putting your protagonist (Michael) in the middle of secondary characters you know little about (names, backgrounds and overall purpose). That's why I think my favourite moments are any of those which give clues as to Michael's relationship with Captain Georgiou; if we had more of that, I would have been more drawn to the character.

The crew characters are still screen filler but, and most importantly, Michael has grown on me as a lead character. Lets see what next Monday brings.

I just feel lot of the character investment has been wasted by the fast tracking of the seven year history shared between the few of the Shenzou. But again, maybe the idea was to get to the central arc of the series early on and then slowly build up the character and her context to the story. Whereas, every Trek pilot before this has done precisely the same in reverse; put the crew together, get to know them and then bring on the threat. Discovery has gone in reverse.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Nothing but the name of the franchise, the title of the show, the name of the lead ship, and the fact that it was described as having a revolutionary new drive system that would be "a whole new way to fly."

In spite of the name, Star Trek isn't really about map it and plant the flag exploration. I've always seen it about the exploration of ideas and humanity. Which can be done in war or peace.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

In spite of the name, Star Trek isn't really about map it and plant the flag exploration. I've always seen it about the exploration of ideas and humanity. Which can be done in war or peace.

I'm not complaining about the wartime setting of the current arc. I'm not complaining at all, in fact. I'm rebutting the notion put forth by DigificWriter that:

"Nothing about Discovery ever indicated that it was going to be an "exploration" show..."

 

[cooleddie74]

DSC is a show about exploration in the same way DS9 was. DS9 explored new species and worlds but it also focused very heavily on religious and political storylines and gave a lot of screentime to the development of two species in particular, the Bajorans and Cardassians. The Dominion War almost completely absorbed the final three seasons of the series but not to the detriment of occasional voyages of exploration and discovering new alien races and spatial and temporal phenomena. Trek has never been entirely nor even on paper about exploration and it shows. TOS had its fair share of episodes that didn't involve beaming down to a planet full of natives the Federation and humans had never before seen nor contacted.

Sometimes Star Trek is about, well, trekking and the things that happen along the way whether or not science and discovery are involved.

 

[Owain Taggart]

These Klingons were very low energy. Maybe they were of the boring and plodding subspecies of Klingons. As cartoonish as the TNG Klingons may have been, at least they were entertaining, especially the bug-eyed Gowron.

Yes, low-energy. That's the term I was looking for. I dunno, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Klingons to do everything with more gusto, is it? These Klingons, I almost expect them to fall asleep. Hopefully we get to see them do more than just stand around in the near future.

 

[Amaris]

It's just that this is the sort of hot-headedness one would expect in a cadet, and not in a seasoned officer ready for her own command, a point that another poster made earlier.

Believe it or not, I give Burnham slack on that one, because PTSD will manifest itself in the weirdest of ways, and at the worst possible time. It's almost like having a severe anxiety attack, where you feel death is imminent, and a rash reaction is required to survive. It will override the rational, reasonable part of your brain like it was never there.

 

[DigificWriter]

DSC is a show about exploration in the same way DS9 was. DS9 explored new species and worlds but it also focused very heavily on religious and political storylines and gave a lot of screentime to the development of two species in particular, the Bajorans and Cardassians. The Dominion War almost completely absorbed the final three seasons of the series but not to the detriment of occasional voyages of exploration and discovering new alien races and spatial and temporal phenomena. Trek has never been entirely nor even on paper about exploration and it shows. TOS had its fair share of episodes that didn't involve beaming down to a planet full of natives the Federation and humans had never before seen nor contacted.

Sometimes Star Trek is about, well, trekking and the things that happen along the way whether or not science and discovery are involved.

QFT.

DS9 is one of my two "measuring sticks" for DSC, and thus far, the series has more than lived up to DS9's quality of storytelling and scope, especially since that is the series that it most resembles right now.

 

[Timewalker]

I actually agree with you here. They are rebooting the TOS universe for some weird reason. Well at least rebooting the visual continuity of TOS. We'll find that out once they decide to show pike and the enterprise.

I can't wait for the explanation of why Sarek, who disapproves of Starfleet, is willing to be chummy with his ward who serves in Starfleet, yet won't even acknowledge the existence of his own son, who also serves in Starfleet.

Maybe Spock should have just shot a Klingon, rather than work his way up the ranks to earn his Science Officer/First Officer rank.

The series clearly is not a reboot. So, that was cool.

So the Klingons have always looked like that, and Sarek has always been willing to take a holographic phone call from Starfleet officers too lazy to think for themselves?

Yes, this is a reboot.

The difference of course is that your'e used to seeing TV series for free but used to paying for movies. Hopefully people can make the mental transition.

Somehow I've managed to live without paying for movies (in a theatre) for the past 17 years.

The only time I ever subscribed to a channel for one show was a few months ago. Bravo is the only way Canadians can legally watch The Handmaid's Tale (since Hulu is not legally available here), so I forked over $$ to watch it. Turns out it was worth it.

This garbage isn't.

Sadly the tv creators once again deny that most humans of African origin do not have naturally straight hair, that wig on mini Michael was awful.

When on Vulcan, wear a dumb-looking TNG-era bowl-cut hairstyle.

And why would they even let their two highest ranking officers go on an away mission alone together. This would drive Riker stark raving mad.

'Cuz that's how TOS always did it. And they're trying so very hard to convince us that this is a prequel to TOS.

It's not working for me, but they're trying.