Spoilers STAR TREK BEYOND - Grading & Discussion

[T'Bonz]

I'll be 58 next month and I loved it.

Have to agree about the shooting Krall thing though. I was mentally yelling at the screen, "SHOOT him, you moron!"

But no, they have to do a dump of information as to Krall's motives first. Which was dumb. Shoot (stun) him first, get the story in the brig later.

 

[johnjm22]

Worst Trek movie ever imho. Seemingly endless and numbing "action" without much in the way of character development or an interesting plot. I gave it a D+. Much of it was like a videogame. Put a fork in movie Treks as far as I'm concerned. They've gone from flawed to horrible. This makes Darkness and even V look good. My only hope now is the new TV series.

Into Darkness and ST09 had more action than Beyond. Beyond was definitely an upgrade over those two movies.
Nemesis and STID are still easily the worst two Trek films.

 

[drt]

Have to agree about the shooting Krall thing though. I was mentally yelling at the screen, "SHOOT him, you moron!"

But no, they have to do a dump of information as to Krall's motives first. Which was dumb. Shoot (stun) him first, get the story in the brig later.

He actually did stun him when he first got there, but it didn't render him unconscious, then they proceeded to have their conversation instead of Kirk zapping him a couple more times.

 

[dtmaven]

Well it's a matter of taste. I'm 40yo so i guess i'm just too old to watch these kind of action movies (or so i feel)

...and I'm 63! I watch TOS on TV, watched TNG, and Enterprise. Not much of a fanof DS9 or VOY.
Saw all the movies. As far as the reboot movies, this by far is the best. I have to diagree with you on all points. The only character development that could have gone a little more in-depth was Jaylah, however, we'll probably see more of her in future movies.

 

[Ovation]

Just saw it again (saw it on Monday with my son in IMAX 3D--regular 2D showing this time, and I liked it better that way).

I like all the Trek movies (even the "bad" ones), though not all equally of course. I've seen every Trek episode and movie multiple times (been watching since 1973). Now that my bona fides are established (oh and I'm a few weeks shy of 49--seems to be a new requirement ), here are my thoughts.

One--I agree with all the comments about the film being the closest to TOS of the new cast--I'd say it's the closest, period (no longer rookies, in their prime, etc.). For anyone looking for the TOS "feel", this one is the closest.

Two--that said, I still like STiD a touch more (just watched it yesterday--needed to watch something to put my new home cinema projector to the test. Was planning to watch a few scenes to help assess my calibration of the settings, ended up watching the whole thing). Don't have a lengthy, detailed argument to offer. I simply preferred the story. To me, it seems grander in scale. But, YMMV.

Three--I still prefer the uniforms from the previous two films. Not a big point (and the ones Chekov and Kirk wear in Beyond are fine--don't like the standard Beyond uniforms).

Four--also, I prefer the score of STiD to Beyond. Maybe that has an influence on my preference.

Still enjoyed Beyond very much (as I have all the new cast films). Hope to see many more with this crew (without Yelchin, obviously--and sadly).

 

[Lapis Exilis]

I thought Captain Kirk was James Bond in space. Always going places, bedding hot women, charging right into the mouth of mortal danger and always getting out alive (except GEN, but GEN doesn't count because B&B&Moore).

NuKirk is like James Bond + Ethan Hunt (Mission Impossible).

I respectfully disagree. While there are some surface trappings that Kirk shares with James Bond there are such fundamental differences that the comparison doesn't really hold up. James Bond is flippant and destructive - he's explicitly out to kill most of his enemies and morality does not factor in particularly. Kirk (at least TOS Kirk, nuKirk IS more like James Bond) was almost never flippant, being introspective, self-doubting, and above all, moral. He sees beyond differences and beyond his own limitations. "Yes, we are savages, but I'm not going to kill today. That's all it takes. I'm not going to kill today."

Captain Kirk is Captain Kirk. He shares some qualities of other types of legendary heroes, but in a mix that's all his own - otherwise he wouldn't be the icon he is. James Bond and superheroes aren't explorers.

 

[BillJ]

Nemesis and STID are still easily the worst two Trek films.

Different strokes. I loved Into Darkness, and think Nemesis is the best of the TNG films.

 

[KirbyHawk]

I gave it an A. Right now, it may be my favorite JJ timeline movie and definitely in my top 3 of Star Trek movies.

The actors have really grown into their characters. The actors really work well together.

Jaylah was a great character. I would love to see her in future films.

Kroll was your typical Star Trek villian. Not a bad villian, but is no Khan (the original) either. I kind of lumped him with Nero from Star Trek (2009) and Ru'Aflo from Insurrection.

The movie was fun, funny, and action packed. It was action packed but also stayed true to Star Trek. A very good movie.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I just got back from seeing STB, and I thought it was great!

A few questions, though:

- Where was Hendorff (Cupcake)? Was he even in the film?

- The commander of Yorktown is a Commodore, but she says that Kirk would also be stationed there if he accepted the promotion to Vice Admiral. So then he'd outrank her... but I suppose she could have meant that Kirk would have responsibility for a larger sector of space, and just have an office on the station (while Paris would still be Yorktown's actual CO). Makes sense, right?

- Is it just me, or did Edison/Krall actually seem to have a change of heart at the end of the film? When he floats up into the chamber right before he's ejected into space, it seemed like he was deliberately sacrificing himself. Anyone else get that?

- The Franklin can't be a very big ship, can it? Yet they seemed to fit the entire Enterprise crew into it. There must not have been many survivors...

- When Uhura is arguing with Krall and she says "Our captain will come for us..." and Krall replies "I'm counting on it," wasn't Uhura also supposed to have said "Mercy will be the last thing on his mind"? She didn't say that line in the actual film. Was it originally filmed, but cut?

- Everything went by so fast I could barely keep up, but...was there a 47 reference?

 

[Ovation]

I just got back from seeing STB, and I thought it was great!

A few questions, though:

- Where was Hendorff (Cupcake)? Was he even in the film?

He was apparently left on the cutting room floor, according to some reports.

- The commander of Yorktown is a Commodore, but she says that Kirk would also be stationed there if he accepted the promotion to Vice Admiral. So then he'd outrank her... but I suppose she could have meant that Kirk would have responsibility for a larger sector of space, and just have an office on the station (while Paris would still be Yorktown's actual CO). Makes sense, right?

Why not? Nothing in the dialogue specifically ties the office to the space station. Nor did she express any hint of moving on or seeking a successor.

- Is it just me, or did Edison/Krall actually seem to have a change of heart at the end of the film? When he floats up into the chamber right before he's ejected into space, it seemed like he was deliberately sacrificing himself. Anyone else get that?

Not how I read it. He seemed to have a moment's hesitation, but then tried to stab Kirk with a shard of glass, to stop Kirk from saving the station.

- The Franklin can't be a very big ship, can it? Yet they seemed to fit the entire Enterprise crew into it. There must not have been many survivors...

The movie is, frankly, unclear on this point. Several theories have been proposed: severe casualty count, only a skeleton crew complement went for a quick rescue mission while the rest stayed on Yorktown, some were left behind to picked up later (though that seems unlikely given some dialogue in the film). A murky point overall.

- When Uhura is arguing with Krall and she says "Our captain will come for us..." and Krall replies "I'm counting on it," wasn't Uhura also supposed to have said "Mercy will be the last thing on his mind"? She didn't say that line in the actual film. Was it cut?

I noticed a number of things were not present in the film from the trailers (or were there with alternate takes, so lines were said differently). The one you mention, Kirk asks "what is that" in the film but "what the hell is that" in the trailer just as the Swarm shows up, some of Jaylah's lines in the trailers are delivered differently in the film (a separate thing from lines being taken out of order--that's a trailer staple). Kirk's line in the trailer about the "last log entry as captain of the Enterprise" is absent from the film. I'm sure there are others.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

This is just a minor thing, but I actually would have preferred it if Paris was retiring and Kirk would have been promoted to Commodore to replace her. Besides, for the first time in his career, Kirk would have been promoted only one grade of rank and not skipped any.

And I guess I forgot about the shards of glass.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I gave it an A. A big improvement on ID and at least as good as '09. I'd say it's my favourite Star Trek film since First Contact.

 

[Campe]

He was apparently left on the cutting room floor, according to some reports.

Apparently, he was to die. Again.

Why not? Nothing in the dialogue specifically ties the office to the space station. Nor did she express any hint of moving on or seeking a successor.

But it did indicate the VA position was to be held on Yorktown.

Not how I read it. He seemed to have a moment's hesitation, but then tried to stab Kirk with a shard of glass, to stop Kirk from saving the station.

I read it that maybe Kirk got to him for just a second and as he flew up to help him. Then disgusted by the reflection in the glass, he changed his mind and went back to his evil ways.

 

[Makarov]

Into Darkness and ST09 had more action than Beyond. Beyond was definitely an upgrade over those two movies.
Nemesis and STID are still easily the worst two Trek films.

It didn't feel that way to me. Much of 09 set up the characters, Into Darkness had story behind the action, Beyond is just all action. There is more story in the opening section of ID with Kirk getting chewed out by Pike, or Khan's monologue, than there is in the entire movie of Beyond.

 

[Ovation]

But it did indicate the VA position was to be held on Yorktown.

True, but he need not be the direct station commander. Not a big deal either way.

I read it that maybe Kirk got to him for just a second and as he flew up to help him. Then disgusted by the reflection in the glass, he changed his mind and went back to his evil ways.

A plausible interpretation. It is a bit ambiguous--and I have no problem with that. I'm rather fond of filmmakers setting things up with multiple interpretations rather than spoon feeding everything throughout the story.

 

[BigJake]

@Makarov: Different strokes. For my money Beyond is the first time a lot of the characters really gelled (Pegg's Scotty and Yelchin's Chekov in particular -- ugh, what a damnable shame about Yelchin), the first time Kirk actually convinced in the Captain's role -- the character in the Abrams movies was a likeable cat but I wouldn't have followed him on a bar crawl let alone a space voyage -- the first time the story behind the action actually held together (it wasn't fancy but it was coherent, which was a huge upgrade), the first time the action and the effects felt like the served the story rather than as distractions from the relative lack of one. I think those are the main reasons it's winning over a lot of people who were underwhelmed by the previous reboot entries, leastways they're the elements that worked for me. Beyond did keep an action-oriented focus and that was fine by me, I personally never had a problem with the amount of action per se.

 

[Ovation]

@Makarov: Different strokes. For my money Beyond is the first time a lot of the characters really gelled (Pegg's Scotty and Yelchin's Chekov in particular -- ugh, what a damnable shame about Yelchin), the first time Kirk actually convinced in the Captain's role -- the character in the Abrams movies was a likeable cat but I wouldn't have followed him on a bar crawl let alone a space voyage -- the first time the story behind the action actually held together (it wasn't fancy but it was coherent, which was a huge upgrade), the first time the action and the effects felt like the served the story rather than as distractions from the relative lack of one. I think those are the main reasons it's winning over a lot of people who were underwhelmed by the previous reboot entries, leastways they're the elements that worked for me. Beyond did keep an action-oriented focus and that was fine by me, I personally never had a problem with the amount of action per se.

That's fair. I guess I view it as the earlier films showing us the process by which the characters get to the (relatively same) point as the TOS originals on the five year mission, whereas the third film is already there. I found Pine's Kirk a bit similar to Shatner's Kirk in Where No Man Has Gone Before in tone, at times, in Beyond.

Into Darkness, though, grows upon me with each viewing. It need not have been Khan (and, quite easily, could have been better if Harrison was just one of his followers instead) but I'm not bothered that he is Khan. I'm not going to re-hash the "white-washing" argument (the film has been made), though I am more sympathetic to the complaints now than I was when it premiered. Someone once made the argument that when Khan says "John Harrison was a fiction dreamed up by Marcus" (or some such thing), it works well if you simply assume surgical alteration as part of the "fiction". I've watched it twice since I've read that and (to me) a lot falls into place with just that presumption. But enough about Into Darkness (don't want to derail the thread).

I liked Beyond as an entertaining entry in the film series and as the culmination of the crew becoming the five year mission crew. But I've watched the "five year mission" dozens of times, so perhaps I'm less interested in exploring that period than either what came before or after (say, post TMP, pre-TWOK). In the end, though, I'll be back for whatever comes next.

 

[BigJake]

I found Pine's Kirk a bit similar to Shatner's Kirk in Where No Man Has Gone Before in tone, at times, in Beyond.

I agree, and I liked that a lot. (Though it was still his Kirk.)

 

[Ovation]

I agree, and I liked that a lot. (Though it was still his Kirk.)

True. It was not a Shatner mimic in any way--just some moments where his tone was a touch mischievous (as in the opening chess match with Spock in Where No Man..) and in his attempt to persuade Dehner and Mitchell to hold onto their humanity much like Pine's Kirk tries with Krall/Edison. Probably not intentional, but felt similar to me nonetheless.

 

[drt]

The movie is, frankly, unclear on this point. Several theories have been proposed: severe casualty count, only a skeleton crew complement went for a quick rescue mission while the rest stayed on Yorktown, some were left behind to picked up later (though that seems unlikely given some dialogue in the film). A murky point overall.

I sort of wonder if Pegg/Jung intended Franklin to be more NX-01 sized, in which case those couple hundred rescued crewmembers would have easily fit.