Spoilers STAR TREK BEYOND - Grading & Discussion

[dahj]

Saw it yesterday, loved it.

Easily my favourite of the nuTrek movies.
If you took away the action scenes it feels like a TOS episode on the big screen, and I can't fathom why it took them 3 movies to finally get to that.

It's a shame it's not finding an audience. Had this been the first entry in the reboot series I think the whole franchise would have been way better off.

P.S. I would totally be on board if Jaylah came back, and now that Chekov's seat is unfortunately emptied seems like she would fit there well.

 

[Campe]

Yeah, "Gene's Vision" while a producer of Star Trek was:
(.)(.) <-- From aspiring young actresses via the extra's casting couch
and
$$$

"You wanna know what my vision is? Dollar signs, money! I didn't build this ship to usher in a new era for humanity. You think I wanna see the stars? I don't even like to fly! I take trains! I built this ship so I could retire to some tropical island... filled with [smirks] naked women. THAT'S Zefram Cochrane. THAT'S his vision. This other guy you keep talking about, this historical figure? I never met him. I can't imagine I ever will."

Hmmm... Sounds vaguely familiar.

 

[locutus101]

I like Beyond more than the latest one but less than the first one, IOW there was some room for improvement.

 

[Makarov]

If you're okay following the ideals of an IP thief, drug user, adulterer and possible rapist. I won't stop you.

Sounds like everyone in Hollywood. When people talk about Gene's vision I think they're referring to the message put on screen, not the show business process which went on behind the scenes.

 

[BillJ]

Sounds like everyone in Hollywood. When people talk about Gene's vision I think they're referring to the message put on screen, not the show business process which went on behind the scenes.

Maybe we should be talking about "Star Trek's Vision", if we need to be talking about such things. There were a lot of people responsible for Star Trek's success beyond Roddenberry.

 

[JWPlatt]

I could go for that.

 

[Enterprise1701]

Maybe we should be talking about "Star Trek's Vision", if we need to be talking about such things. There were a lot of people responsible for Star Trek's success beyond Roddenberry.

I find that to be useful clarification.

 

[Yanks]

Or he simply didn't understand what it all meant to him until he had it ripped away?

This is the impression I got. For both Kirk and Spock.

Spock seemed to have forgotten that he almost lost Kirk in that movie as well, he's ready to ditch him here.

This movie for all intents and purposes forgot that STiD existed. (probably for the better)

I just don't care about nu_kirk's character arc.

I think it's the best part of the "nu" movies. While it has taken place at warp speed, it is pretty cool. There is a vid on youtube detailing Kirk's development. I hope they update it now that Beyond is out.

Edit: There was enthusiastic applause from the audience

Nice to here. May I ask when during the showing? At the end? .... during the movie?

I really enjoyed thids and I'm quite secure that the quality of the movie had nothing to do with it's box office.

I agree. My personal opinion is that STiD pissed quite a large portion of the fan base off... they are holding out until the DVD comes out. Also, this movie didn't have the most robust advertising effort we've ever seen for sure.

 

[RAMA]

The fan base is quite small. It's the casual fans that didn't come to see the movie. Why that is is kind of a mystery..considering the good reviews and excellent fan/viewer reaction. Fandango, where many people get their tickets, has 11,000 ratings now and it's 4.5/5 stars.

RAMA

This is the impression I got. For both Kirk and Spock.



This movie for all intents and purposes forgot that STiD existed. (probably for the better)



I think it's the best part of the "nu" movies. While it has taken place at warp speed, it is pretty cool. There is a vid on youtube detailing Kirk's development. I hope they update it now that Beyond is out.



Nice to here. May I ask when during the showing? At the end? .... during the movie?



I agree. My personal opinion is that STiD pissed quite a large portion of the fan base off... they are holding out until the DVD comes out. Also, this movie didn't have the most robust advertising effort we've ever seen for sure.

 

[JWPlatt]

Nice to hear. May I ask when during the showing? At the end? .... during the movie?

At the end, after the 1701-A warps off ... followed by audible sounds of sympathy at the fades to black for each of Nimoy and Yelchin. Very touching.

 

[BillJ]

The fan base is quite small. It's the casual fans that didn't come to see the movie. Why that is is kind of a mystery..considering the good reviews and excellent fan/viewer reaction. Fandango, where many people get their tickets, has 11,000 ratings now and it's 4.5/5 stars.

I tend to think they simply gave away too much of the movie in advertising.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

As I posted to Fountain Pen Network:

I'd say it's probably the best of the Abramsverse ST films (and NO, I will NOT call it the "Kelvin Universe"; the Abramsverse is what it is) to date.

Unlike the first one, it didn't involve destroying the homeworld of a founding member of the Federation, or depriving Kirk of his father, or putting somebody straight out of the Academy in command of a starship.

Unlike the second one, it didn't involve futzing around with major characters and laying waste to a not-insignificant part of Earth.

Yet somehow, the stakes were plenty high, and there was plenty of action, tension, drama, character development, and comic relief.

And on top of that, the actors seem to have settled much better into their characters.

I certainly wouldn't mind seeing Jaylah return.

 

[dub]

It was a mix for me. I still rank ST09 as the best of the three. I enjoyed the character interaction. Very charming. I love the new girl and hope she is back in 4. I didn't think Thrall was fleshed out coherently. Does he want to prolong his life by capturing people alive, or does he want to destroy everyone? Yes, he's insane, but for the sake of plot it really shouldn't be both. And I felt the action was safe, boring and even silly at times (some bad edits too), but I was glad to see it mostly reserved for the end of the film. As with a lot of recent action films, sometimes it's too shaky or there's so much junk in the shot that it's difficult to make out what's going on, at least for me. I watched it in 3D because that's what one of my buddies wanted to do. I thought the end credits were cool in 3D, but could have done without 3D for the rest of it. Some of the music cues in the action sequences seemed to echo the original series, which I thought was very nice. It may have been my ears trying to make that connection, but it seemed that way to me. And if they were going to introduce a relationship for Sulu, then they should have had Sulu concerned about his child and partner in other scenes, then relieved to find them alive at the end of the film. Otherwise, it was just a bone to throw at progressives. I thought the humor was great. I like the song they used both in the film and in the trailer and still don't get the issue with that. I did find the motorcycle thing to be forced, but at least it was fun once they got going with it, so that one was easily forgiven for me. I'll have to see it again though for sure.

 

[Franklin]

The fan base is quite small. It's the casual fans that didn't come to see the movie. Why that is is kind of a mystery..considering the good reviews and excellent fan/viewer reaction. Fandango, where many people get their tickets, has 11,000 ratings now and it's 4.5/5 stars.

RAMA

It's weird, that's for sure. I may be in the minority, but I didn't think advertising was a problem. The movie met the upper end of first weekend estimates, so there was no real disappointment there. The drop off is the thing. I think there may be enough in STB to bring back the fan to catch references that may have been missed the first time, or enjoy the character moments again. But to me, it comes back to there not being enough story to catch the casual fan's interest, especially not enough to merit a second viewing. In other words, it was good, or good enough, but not "I must see this again," good. To be honest, even I thought the plot was shallow and far too linear. It went through its plot points like a checklist. The rush to produce it may have been part of that problem. Maybe with 28 minutes of it on the cutting floor, strategic errors were made in what ended up on the screen and what didn't. There's a lot to chew on.

The average fan or casual fan may not get the same kick out of seeing so much repartee between Spock and McCoy. And for most of the first part of the story, Spock was also largely incapacitated. Maybe it was a mistake to not have Kirk and Spock together. Kirk and Spock are main ingredients, McCoy is a spice. Even though early in the movie Kirk tells Spock they make a good team and Spock agrees, we still haven't seen them "at there best" together. Why do they now believe they've become a good team? What did we miss in those three years for both of them to finally realize that?

In STB McCoy and Spock are the team, even flying around together in a drone ship (McCoy turns out to be as good a helmsman as Kirk or Sulu). Frankly, I thought a story where Kirk and Spock worked together as well as they did in the better TOS episodes was what the first two movies were leading up to. However in STB, we didn't get that, and Kirk did quite well on his own. The mix may have been wrong for just the third movie.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I didn't think Thrall was fleshed out coherently. Does he want to prolong his life by capturing people alive, or does he want to destroy everyone? Yes, he's insane, but for the sake of plot it really shouldn't be both..

Nothing in the movie suggested prolonging his life was ever his goal. It was only a means to an end. Everything about Krall and his minions was 'stay on the mission', 'finish the mission', etc. The mission being to force the Federation to give up its 'insane' doctrine of peaceful tolerant coexistence.

 

[Yanks]

At the end, after the 1701-A warps off ... followed by audible sounds of sympathy at the fades to black for each of Nimoy and Yelchin. Very touching.

I know that me and the gentleman I was sitting by were wiping our eyes. I wish I would have been in a theater like the one you were in.

 

[Franklin]

Nothing in the movie suggested prolonging his life was ever his goal. It was only a means to an end. Everything about Krall and his minions was 'stay on the mission', 'finish the mission', etc. The mission being to force the Federation to give up its 'insane' doctrine of peaceful tolerant coexistence.

Seems like wanting to start a war with the Klingons may have been a more rational choice, but we'd done that one already.

Then again, Edison's rationality was something to be questioned. As it is, I can't see how he even thought killing the residents of Yorktown would've ushered in period of violence and war. If anything, as is the case with some blatant acts of terrorism, it may have had the opposite effect, and in this case, drew the Federation members even closer together and even more committed to peace.

If he had killed everyone in Yorktown and taken over the station as a base of future operations, that would not have worked. He would've never had the chance to build it up. With only him and his cabal as residents, Starfleet simply would've put everything it had into destroying Yorktown. End of problem. He was another insane villain who just wanted to see things burn because it made him feel better. His plan held no water.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Point of information:

Now, bear in mind that, when Disney first added a music track to the Disneyland version of Space Mountain, I'm the guy who, halfway through the ride, blinked and recognized it as a surf-guitar arrangement of the "Aquarium" movement, from Saint-Saens Carnival of the Animals, but had to be told it was Dick Dale's surf-guitar arrangement (not that I know enough about Dick Dale, or surf guitar, for that to mean anything to me). And when I hear top-40 stuff from the 1970s piped into a restaurant, I can sometimes recognize it from the first riff, even though I don't know shit about the artist(s).

Which is to say that there's a lot of music I recognize, whether it's stuff I regularly pay to listen to, or stuff I'd pay to avoid listening to. But there's also an awful lot of music I wouldn't recognize if it fell in my lunch.

So let me get this straight: when we first find out that Jaylah's taste in music emphasizes "beats and shouting," it's "Fight the Power," by Public Enemy,

Spoiler: and when . . .

and when "beats and shouting" are weaponized against the Krall's swarm,

it's "Sabotage," by the Beastie Boys, and the interpolation in the close music is "Sledgehammer" by Rihanna.

Do I have it straight?

 

[drt]

Point of information:

Now, bear in mind that, when Disney first added a music track to the Disneyland version of Space Mountain, I'm the guy who, halfway through the ride, blinked and recognized it as a surf-guitar arrangement of the "Aquarium" movement, from Saint-Saens Carnival of the Animals, but had to be told it was Dick Dale's surf-guitar arrangement (not that I know enough about Dick Dale, or surf guitar, for that to mean anything to me). And when I hear top-40 stuff from the 1970s piped into a restaurant, I can sometimes recognize it from the first riff, even though I don't know shit about the artist(s).

Which is to say that there's a lot of music I recognize, whether it's stuff I regularly pay to listen to, or stuff I'd pay to avoid listening to. But there's also an awful lot of music I wouldn't recognize if it fell in my lunch.

So let me get this straight: when we first find out that Jaylah's taste in music emphasizes "beats and shouting," it's "Fight the Power," by Public Enemy,

Spoiler: and when . . .

and when "beats and shouting" are weaponized against the Krall's swarm,

it's "Sabotage," by the Beastie Boys, and the interpolation in the close music is "Sledgehammer" by Rihanna.

Do I have it straight?

That is correct

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Thanks.

Hip-hop and . . . punk rap?!? isn't exactly my strong suit, any more than Mahler (takes too long to get to the point) or Wagner (too paleo-Nazi) are my strong suits.

And while Michael Giacchino is hardly another John Williams (nor even another Jerry Goldsmith, James Horner, Alexander Courage, or Dennis McCarthy), I do rather like his scores for the Abramsverse ST films, so far at least, and take exception to the crack "eyeresist" made about him in another thread.