Spoilers STAR TREK BEYOND - Grading & Discussion

[bhldev]

It was a humanitarian mission, not combat. I doubt any of those ships were sent for support or defense of other ships, but to help Vulcan.

Okay; I will give this to you that Trek doesn't work like that (I could counter with Dominion War examples, examples in the movies like BoP commander calling the E a "battleship" etc. and the obvious different roles of smaller ships compared to larger ones) but I will give it to you that the Federation likes to build really big general-purpose starships. Still, Spock's "we are not prepared" means he knows and realises what it will take to defeat that kind of attack. What that means we don't get a chance to see. The Romulans in Enterprise had small fast manoeuvrable ships that could dodge phasers and photorps, so presumably there's a way to counter them with enough "prep".

Because the Swarm were new enemies. New enemies don't have 50 years of definable traits like the portrayal of Starfleet does.

New is fine, but there's certain characteristics which need to make sense in Sci-Fi movies... presumably the Federation doesn't have pylons holding nacelles because they like having a huge structural weakness, but because that's what it takes to make a warp field. Things like that. It would be jarring if all of a sudden fighters became the main point of ST. Not that I actually have a problem with new aliens or new technology, but it is certainly a gap. The only way to reconcile it is to say, had shields been effective, the fighters would just have bounced off or blown up.

 

[Amaris]

Economic use of space? There seems to be a central core where ships are worked on in a controlled environment. Maybe they thought people would want to watch on their lunch breaks in the plaza?

I have no clue. I'm just bullshitting here.

This works for me. I sure as hell would want to watch massive starships docking, as I'm sure many people would. Hell, there are restaurants where you can watch massive ships docking in sea ports, so why not in space?

 

[urbandefault]

Krull's

It's "Krall," sounds like "Crawl," but not Pauly Shore from "Son-In-Law."

 

[BillJ]

New is fine, but there's certain characteristics which need to make sense in Sci-Fi movies... presumably the Federation doesn't have pylons holding nacelles because they like having a huge structural weakness, but because that's what it takes to make a warp field. Things like that. It would be jarring if all of a sudden fighters became the main point of ST. Not that I actually have a problem with new aliens or new technology, but it is certainly a gap. The only way to reconcile it is to say, had shields been effective, the fighters would just have bounced off or blown up.

Most Trek ships have always had huge structural weaknesses (they put the bridge on top of the saucer, exposed). But we can't have writers go into the writers room and be afraid to create something new because it may show flaws in the way things have been. The neck and nacelle supports have always been a weakness. The Swarm took advantage. Not every adversary is going to be the Swarm.

 

[Starbreaker]

Looks like the majority of people are loving this movie. Looking through this thread and Reddit and Twitter, I'm only seeing the occasional "No Captain Janeway checking her e-mail movie like I wanted, F-!!)

 

[sttngfan1701d]

Gave it a B. It was better than decent, but it didn't wow me. I enjoyed the Yorktown, I liked the universal translator that the woman wore on her collar (that was so cool!), and I liked how the characters were rather introspective.

Oh, and Jaylah was pretty cute and adorable, which I didn't expect.

And "You gave your girlfriend a tracking device?"

Overall it felt rather short and just a *bit* undercooked, but I appreciated what it tried to do, and I think it was better than Into Darkness.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I gave it a C+ because I expected more, but it was still a fine movie.

I tried to explain the Sulu has a husband scene to my grilfriend and she laughed her ass off. " ...And Kirk is looking at them longingly because he envies what they have, because no one wants to marry him. Sad #### is going to die alone."

 

[bhldev]

Most Trek ships have always had huge structural weaknesses (they put the bridge on top of the saucer, exposed). But we can't have writers go into the writers room and be afraid to create something new because it may show flaws in the way things have been. The neck and nacelle supports have always been a weakness. The Swarm took advantage. Not every adversary is going to be the Swarm.

This is actually an interesting point; we saw the reason for this in one of the action sequences the bridge viewscreen is actually a pane of glass that can be broken. Presumably because when fancy sensors and cameras fail you still want the bridge crew to see outside.

Won't sell me on weakness, essentially I prefer to think of the shapes / designs necessary to form a warp field... I don't think they should have been afraid to create the swarm, just have Kirk / Spock react a little better and the technology deal with it a little better. Maybe a couple of photorps explode and blow up a ton, but there's just too many and they get through. The only thing they took advantage of was a one-trick pony to get through the shields, like the Jem'Hadar got through the Odyssey's shields with their weapons... once the shields work such attacks don't work and it's back to battleship broadsides...

 

[BillJ]

This is actually an interesting point; we saw the reason for this in one of the action sequences the bridge viewscreen is actually a pane of glass that can be broken. Presumably because when fancy sensors and cameras fail you still want the bridge crew to see outside.

Having a bulkhead there is no better. As we saw in Star Trek: Nemesis.

Won't sell me on weakness, essentially I prefer to think of the shapes / designs necessary to form a warp field... I don't think they should have been afraid to create the swarm, just have Kirk / Spock react a little better and the technology deal with it a little better. Maybe a couple of photorps explode and blow up a ton, but there's just too many and they get through

They did blow up quite a few. They were just overwhelmed.

The only thing they took advantage of was a one-trick pony to get through the shields, like the Jem'Hadar got through the Odyssey's shields with their weapons... once the shields work such attacks don't work and it's back to battleship broadsides...

Good luck with massive anti-matter explosions.

 

[Makarov]

I'm not sharing the love for the story in this movie, the expectations must be low because trek has done much better before. As far as stranded on a planet stories, even the Tuvok voyager episode where he's stranded on a planet with some kids is better than Beyond's. The twist in that episode is even better, and that's a one hour episode of TV. We introduce one alien character here who I have no idea what her culture was supposed to be like except she can do martial arts, there's a fantastic looking station which also very little information on. Even an action heavy movie can develop these things a little. Maybe I did miss something here.

 

[BillJ]

Maybe I did miss something here.

From my perspective, I wonder if you actually bought tickets to the same movie. Sure you weren't in Ghostbusters or The Secret Life of Pets?

 

[bhldev]

I'm not sharing the love for the story in this movie, the expectations must be low because trek has done much better before. As far as stranded on a planet stories, even the Tuvok voyager episode where he's stranded on a planet with some kids is better than Beyond's. The twist in that episode is even better, and that's a one hour episode of TV. We introduce one alien character here who I have no idea what her culture was supposed to be like except she can do martial arts, there's a fantastic looking station which also very little information on. Even an action heavy movie can develop these things a little. Maybe I did miss something here.

I think what you're missing is without this sort of pacing, it wouldn't sell. Basically Beyond is an action movie, and should be treated as such (and perhaps compared to other ST action movies like FC... and Nemesis lol). I certainly like it much more than ID4.

Being an action movie lines like "couldn't they have just rented a planet somewhere" is supposed to suspend disbelief for the audience... one liners and visuals are king... if it was paced like a TV episode with exposition, the movie would be a total bomb. Maybe they could have made the alien girl a Reman or a Romulan and Krall's people Gorns, but then people would be complaining about bastardizing the originals... the fanservice basically comes from the transporter enhancers, the spatial torpedoes and pulse phasers, the MACOs, etc. it was obviously a concious choice to create something "exotic" again in the name of "action movie"...

 

[bhldev]

By the way I would rather watch this movie five times than watch Nemesis / Insurrection / even First Contact twice... you can get more from every watching of this especially as a Trek fan... that's hard to say of any of NuTrek even ST:ID and ST2009... basically, it is a total success for NuTrek, when compared to what it COULD have been (a total, utter failure)...

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Random thoughts after 32 pages of skimmed comments

- The attack on Enterprise was intense and visually arresting. I thought that was just a great set piece.

- As someone who has ripped on the use of Sabotage I couldn't help but nod approvingly when it was used. It was so Spinal Tap it worked. And as much as I really don't care for dirt bike scenes in Trek movies they did a really good job with that.

- Krall needed something more or maybe less. I think it might've worked better to give him no motivation other than being a bad bad. Unfortunately, he felt as perfunctory as such characters seem to be in these movies sometimes.

- Jaylah's introduction was sadly timely with Anton Yelchin's passing.

- I've come to accept it but it's funny how in action movies people can fall face first onto rocks without much issue (s.a. Jaylah freeing Kirk from the trap).

- The universal translator busts decades of canon! Interesting to see it used in that way but I guess that means everyone is speaking English after all.

- The starbase was really cool. There was a lot to enjoy in this one, I don't think the weakness of Krall will affect the strengths of the movie.

- Sulu's scene was pretty subtle. Hell, he could've been greeting his brother.

- And I think I have a bit of a thing for Shohreh Aghdashloo...and it's creeping me out.

 

[Mr Light]

The Science of Star Trek Beyond
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/75816

<<And another thing! What kind of idiotic future tech bursts into flames when hit by VHF waves? This is just the frequency of TV broadcast signals! These aliens, who have technology so great that they are one of the few species in the galaxy who have brought down the Enterprise, self destruct if they are around TV sets. This is one of the dumbest things in Star Trek history.>>

My understanding on my one viewing was that since the Swarm is buzzing around in sync with each other at such high speeds, the slightest disruption of the command signal coordinating them would cause them to crash into each other. At such high velocity they would instantly explode.

So the ships weren't just exploding because of a radio signal, they were messing up and hitting each other. Right?

 

[Tom Servo]

Thats what I thought. They had to use the signal to communicate their movements, since they flew like swarmed bees. The signal disrupted that and they collided with each other.

I don't mind criticisms of film, but at least be paying attention to whats going on if you're gonna make the criticism.

 

[Nerys Myk]

So the ships weren't just exploding because of a radio signal, they were messing up and hitting each other. Right?

Works for me. I didn't give it a second thought. It's Star Trek ,where when stuff bursts into flames for no reason, it's a day ending in "Y".

 

[Mjolnir2000]

Thinking maybe a B, but I'm still processing it.

So things I didn't like:

• Still too much action, though it was somehow more *interesting* action than the previous two films.
• Could have used more backstory on Krull and what he'd been up to for the last century. Was everyone there a part of his crew? What about the alien with the sob story? And I guess the swarm was supposed to be mostly automated? That wasn't really clear until then end when he mentioned something about robotic mining equipment. I was trying to figure out where the heck he got pilots for all those ships.
• The opening scene was a bit too cutesy.
• After a mediocre first outing and a god-awful second outing, I'm still having a little trouble feeling emotionally invested in the characters. Not really a problem with this film, but it did impact my enjoyment.

Things I did like:

• Yorktown. Wow! Love me some megastructures.
• Good use of all the characters. They've got a great ensemble cast, and didn't let it go to waste.
• Touching on good Star Trek-y themes of diversity. Might have been a bit superficial, but I'll take it.
• The humor worked pretty well for me.
• Actually reasonably well paced.
• Referenced canon without being hamfisted about it.

On the whole, a pretty good film. The first of the Kelvin films I can see myself frequently revisiting in years to come. Bring on the next one!

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I'd have loved to see the pilot drones all covering their ears as Sabotage plays.

Could have used more backstory on Krull and what he'd been up to for the last century.

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[Nerys Myk]

I'd have loved to see the pilot drones all covering their ears as Sabotage plays.

Nah, you know their heads were bobbing and their toes were tapping. It's why they lost control.