Oh, gosh yes. But that's what the ignore feature is for.
Star Trek 4 Hits A Snag
- Thread starter Doc Mugatu
- Start date
Oh, gosh yes. But that's what the ignore feature is for.
The whole idea of doing TWoK (again) pissed my off. So JJ has this idea for a new tineline so the writers do not have to be constrained by (or learn) a ton of Trek cannon.
And once we arrive at this new point, they do the same friggin' story (with minor changes) ToS did in their second movie. It was both lazy and undermined their whole premise for the new timeline.
Not to mention they did a poor job for the most part. Not to mention they all just give up & accept Vulcan being gone. Glad the originals did nit do that in TVH wuth Earth.
Beyond had less silliness and an original premise & story. Much better.
But it was Kirk that was in the radioactive chamber this time instead of Spock. Totally different! It has nothing in common with TWOK, and even if it does, SO WHAT?!
You know better than to do that. Have a warning. (Comments to PM.)
that’s a fairly surface read on the film. there is very little in into darkness that resembles wrath of khan sorry-wise. yes they duplicated or paid homage to beats and scenes from the film, but the point was to illuminate that it was a new timeline where things would play out differently in some ways and the same in others.
was it a successful device? most people hate it and even those of us who love into darkness have to admit the film’s weaker aspects are the wrath of khan elements.
but a copy of wrath of khan, star trek into darkness is not.
I think for me, it ditches it’s very promising development and themes at precisely the moment Nimoy pops up and the whole thing descends into a cover album.
you’re not wrong that into darkness falls off a cliff right around the time nimoy shows up. but seriously, the “cover album” part is one scene.
if you went to the bathroom during the kirk “death” scene, into darkness would basically be its own film.
Kirk Death, and Khaaaaaaaaan.
And it would be a very long toilet trip, based on my memory of the scenes.
Ultimately it also sends up the KT ‘yes, Khan could have been different here...but no, he’s just a nutter after all, mortal enemy of Kirk, blah blah’ and lessens it’s overall strengths.
Beyond funnily enough does the opposite with its killing of the enterprise. It’s something we have seen before...but it’s genuinely different, in a different story...in which everything else is totally different, totally big screen, yet somehow the characters are closer to our familiar TV ones than ever. And it works.
Agree to disagree. Kirk's themes continue, as do Spock's without any thing more that a brief beat of that scene. I'm truly sorry that anyone is so affected by that brief scene, or Spock's "Khan yell" that it negatively impacts their enjoyment of the film. If I had the skill I would edit them out and let film flow.
Khan could have been different, yes, but he isn't Kirk's mortal enemy. He is a mere obstacle to Khan, and Marcus is Kirk's true enemy.
When young JJ Spock spoke to old Real Spock (
) wouldn't the Khan he and our gallant crew fought be a different Khan to the one in Into Darkness?
So why would his advice even matter?
) wouldn't the Khan he and our gallant crew fought be a different Khan to the one in Into Darkness?So why would his advice even matter?
It mattered because it was fan service.When young JJ Spock spoke to old Real Spock (
So why would his advice even matter?
“OOOOH HE ALLUDED TO EVENTS IN TWOK!”
I wish Marcus had been the only antagonist for the heroes to face, with Khan really being more of an antihero on the run. I’d even go for more of the “Space Seed” ending with Khan getting his people back and settling on a planet. Khan and Kirk working together was a very clever route to take and should have been more implemented for the rest of the film.
Instead he’s just the bad guy again like in TWOK, because he’s “Star Trek’s Joker” according to Lindelof. For a reboot, they really should have taken a more subversive route.
The idea was framming the Klingons and get his war because the Vengeance would be needed to respond to the Klingon threat.
To give insight in to how Khan would think, not how to solve the exact same math problem.When young JJ Spock spoke to old Real Spock (
So why would his advice even matter?
I think he was Section 31 so he didn't care the ends justify the means and all that.
Section 31 was just a weapons manufacturer in that universe. Nothing clandestine.
But to destroy the Enterprise literally at Earth seems crazy.
Which was weird that the Enterprise was shot out of warp, yet it stopped at Earth anyway. There’s many strange bits like that. The Klingon Empire’s border only extending from eyesight of Kronos was the oddest.
1) Starfleet Admiral-crazy is a requirement.
2) Kirk was aiding and abetting a known fugitive. Easy enough to justify.
I still don’t think that warrants killing 700 of his crew. You’d shot to disable and then board.
Yeahhhh, I think the Admiral was way off his rocker by that point. None of what was happening in plain sight would have been easily justified.
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