Spock's line *Major Major Spoilers*

[F. King Daniel]

I'm not sure why Spock blamed Khan. It was Admiral Marcus' who crippled the Enterprise, it was his plan that got them into that situation. Or have I forgotten something?

But Khan was still alive and Marcus was not.

And it was Marcus' fault but if Khan had stuck to the agreement Kirk need not have sacrificed himself

And Spock had just been told by his older self about Khan and what happened in WoK. IIRC, he paged all the medical staff afterward, anticipating having to sacrifice himself. Then after the near-crash he runs belowdecks and finds Kirk has done what he "should" have.

I'm gonna see it again in a couple of days. I hope that scene and the motivations play better for me.

 

[sadsquid]

I had no problem with the scene... It's already been established in ST '09 that NuSpock has problems controlling his emotions, since his mother and his whole home planet have been destroyed (I find that very plausible, especially since he's half-human). So when he lost it when Kirk died, I thought it seemed... logical (I'm sorry, lol). The 'KHAAAAAN' quote had enough motivation behind it, and sure it might be a bit cheesy, but to me, it (that whole part of the movie, really) came off as a tribute to one of Trek's finest stories.

 

[Oso Blanco]

I think that "Khaaaaan" scream was borderline parody, and I wonder if the creators meant to make the audience cry or laugh in that moment. In other words: Was this intentionally or unintentionally "funny"?

 

[Franklin]

Yep.

I just don't get it. Should he have screamed, "Noooooooo!" instead?

He shouldn't have screamed anything! He's a Vulcan!

Remember how he looked when his mom died? He wasn't screaming then!

Instead he beat the holy living crap out of Kirk and behaved completely irrationally when he THREW Kirk off the ship.

Ya know, onto the frozen Hell with the Ice Gorilla and that red thing?

Yep. Spock is not emotionless. That was part of his appeal in TOS. He falls back on his Vulcan philosophy for comfort (at least a Vulcan version of it) as if it's his religion. But being emotionless is no more in a Vulcan's DNA than being a Lutheran or Methodist is in a human's DNA, and people are going to slip. He held his grief and anger in over the death of his mom and the loss of Vulcan for so long out of a sense of duty that when it all finally came out, he nearly killed Kirk.

The mind meld scene between Kirk and Spock Prime was also an excellent example of how Vulcans mearly mute outward emotions. When the meld is broken, Kirk is overwhelmed with emotions. Emotions that are Spock Prime's. Spock Prime apologizes, saying that emotional transference is a side effect of the process. "Then you do feel," is Kirk's realization.
In another line from ST09, Spock Prime tells Kirk, "Believe me...I am emotionally compromised." What a wonderfully understated Spock-like admission of the true pain and grief he's hiding, delivered beautifully by Nimoy.

Now, there are thousands of ways to kill off a character (like shooting him in the back but realizing that's too lame, so having him fall to his death from a bridge, instead). So maybe this one in STID scores a zero for originality, but it's the first time it happened to this Kirk or this Spock. And it's still a better death scene than Kirk Prime got.

 

[MacLeod]

I'm still somewhat on the fence about this scene, maybe a re-watch will change it but at the moment I'm thinking that this scene was one scene too many in call backs to TWOK.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Of course Spock screams. How can we forget this gem from TOS..."THE WOMEN!"?

 

[JarodRussell]

Of course Spock screams. How can we forget this gem from TOS..."THE WOMEN!"?

He should have yelled that instead. Womanizer nuKirk is dead, now it's nuSpock's chance to catch them all. And I don't mean STIDs.

 

[beamMe]

Now that I've finally seen the film in English, Spock's scream is even less problematic for me. The "n" in Khan is cut away in such a way that it seems more like an inarticulate scream.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Of course Spock screams. How can we forget this gem from TOS..."THE WOMEN!"?

He should have yelled that instead. Womanizer nuKirk is dead, now it's nuSpock's chance to catch them all. And I don't mean STIDs.

I will fan edit this when the DVD is available.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Yep.

I just don't get it. Should he have screamed, "Noooooooo!" instead?

He shouldn't have screamed anything! He's a Vulcan!

Remember how he looked when his mom died? He wasn't screaming then!

Instead he beat the holy living crap out of Kirk and behaved completely irrationally when he THREW Kirk off the ship.

Ya know, onto the frozen Hell with the Ice Gorilla and that red thing?

But Kirk wasn't even suppose to be there!

 

[Destructor]

I was annoyed it didn't echo through space the way Kirk's scream did. Er... did it?

 

[Titus Andronicus]

Honestly, this was the part of the film I was worried about from other people's responses. At my theater, however, no one really laughed or did anything. All I noticed was that some folks gasped, knowing how mad Spock was at that point.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I was annoyed it didn't echo through space the way Kirk's scream did. Er... did it?

No. But it has echoed through history so you may have mistaken that for space.

 

[Amaris]

Eh, I loved that scene. That whole scene was terrific, IMO.

 

[imranbecks]

It did take me out of the moment for a while, but I think it was well executed. I didn't see it coming to be honest.... And I'm pretty sure Quinto had to do plenty of takes to get that "Khan!!!!!" scream right...

 

[Amaris]

It did take me out of the moment for a while, but I think it was well executed. I didn't see it coming to be honest.... And I'm pretty sure Quinto had to do plenty of takes to get that "Khan!!!!!" scream right...

I think what made me like it so much was the juxtaposition of characters, and it made for a nice change. I realize some find it hammy, but the original TWOK line was hammy. I feel this was well in line with that, at the very least, and accepted it for what it was.

 

[F. King Daniel]

On my second viewing, it didn't bother me at all. My problem was that I didn't think Spock should be blaming Khan, but Admiral Marcus. I'd somehow missed that Khan attacked the crippled Enterprise, damaging the core and sending them plummeting to Earth.

I think if Spock had instead gone into an ice cold rage it would have been terrifying, but I'm fine with what they did.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

I have to admit that it took me out of the movie for a moment, and a few folks in the theater laughed. I do agree though that the line used in this context makes more sense than Kirk screaming it in TWOK. What was he so mad about, anyway? Yeah, Khan was taunting him about leaving him there on Genesis to die...but Kirk had a plan all along to get back to the Enterprise (days instead of hours...) so he really had no reason to be pissed. Spock, on the other hand...plenty of reason. He'd just lost 2 captains in the span of a few days, both of them his friends. Also keep in mind that while Vulcans repress their emotions, they actually feel them much more strongly than even humans...so in their unrestrained form they would likely be very intense. I have a feeling it'll be less jarring on a repeated viewing.

 

[Captain59]

The problem for me is we don't have an 15-year attachment to these actors playing these characters--including Kahn--to make it as dramatic as they wanted it to be. Not only was the magic of the original three because of the way the stories were written and how the actors portrayed them, but the time we have known them. We have only known these actors playing these characters for three years. To try to remotely mirror the effect of the original actors, even in 1982, just doesn't work.

And Flux make a good point. Prime Kahn hated Prime Kirk for 15 years and wanted to completely destroy him. His actions boiled over to Kirk hating Kahn, and hence we have the great TWOK. But this Kirk and Kahn knew each other for a couple of days and most of that time they were more-or-less co-workers. Spock was involved even less. I understand what they were trying to do, but I just don't think it worked. It's didn't ruin the movie for me by any stretch of the imagination, but it wasn't one of the stronger parts.

(As an aside, it's interesting that in TWOK, Shatner and Montalban never worked together. In this movie, Pine and Cumberbatch were in a lot of scenes together.)

 

[imranbecks]

Now that I remember, Spocks "Khan" scream didn't really have echoes in it as his scream was followed by the USS Vengeance crashing down to earth and narrowly missing the Enterprise by what looked like inches!