Spock's line *Major Major Spoilers*

[JarodRussell]

Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

Franklin, I think you hit it on the head. I recently rewatched TWoK and was surprised at how badly Shatner's "KHAN!" line plays. I suppose I idealized it over time. The movie has merits, surely, but the line in its original context doesn't make a great deal of sense as acted.

I think Spock's enraged version works much better and more sensibly. Here's a man who has been emotionally compromised, who has lost so much, and now had the promise of a friend taken from him. It's clear that it's the last straw for his emotional defenses.

I'd argue that we are likely to dislike the line because we cannot help see it in terms of what we know; a friend of mine who has seen the film but not TWoK was frankly confused as to why anyone would feel that line was out of place. "Of all the lines in the movie, it's got to be one of the most telling, right?" she asked. I'd tend to agree.

Shatner's KHHHAAAAAN! has always been mocked ever since day one.

Which is why it's even more surprising how it made its way into this new film in a scene that is supposed to be taken seriously.

 

[Franklin]

Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

Franklin, I think you hit it on the head. I recently rewatched TWoK and was surprised at how badly Shatner's "KHAN!" line plays. I suppose I idealized it over time. The movie has merits, surely, but the line in its original context doesn't make a great deal of sense as acted.

I think Spock's enraged version works much better and more sensibly. Here's a man who has been emotionally compromised, who has lost so much, and now had the promise of a friend taken from him. It's clear that it's the last straw for his emotional defenses.

I'd argue that we are likely to dislike the line because we cannot help see it in terms of what we know; a friend of mine who has seen the film but not TWoK was frankly confused as to why anyone would feel that line was out of place. "Of all the lines in the movie, it's got to be one of the most telling, right?" she asked. I'd tend to agree.

They must've decided to take a chance that fans would get lost in the moment and not immediately make the connection. Must not have worked out well for many. I haven't seen the movie yet (I'm on a one-week countdown), so I guess I'll see how I react then.

The other thing is Spock's death scene in TWOK was OK, but not really a great, great, iconic scene. It's been romaticized over time, I'd say. But as movie death scenes go, eh. Maybe that's the light it's finally being seen in this time. Pine and Quinto can't quite sell it as well as Shatner and Nimoy did. Maybe it wasn't worth the homage. (OMG. Did I really just write that? I HAVE BLASPHEMED!)

(And as far as Kirk coming back to life goes, it's not like anyone didn't expect Spock to come back somehow in the next movie, either.)

 

[Classic Fan]

Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

The laughable cornball moment was when Kirk (Shatner) got to emote and yelled, "Khaaaaaaaaan," in TWOK. It was cringe-inducing when I saw it for the first time in the theater, and it still is, today.

In the context of STID, here's Spock, who we know is still wondering how to deal with the emotions that churn just below his surface. Here's Spock, who has lost six billion of his fellow Vulcans, his mom, and now Kirk. Sure, they'd been together only a year, but Spock Prime had told him that in his universe, they went on to have a long friendship and accomplished great and unique things. It was important that they were together. Now, that chance has been taken away from him, too.

Should Spock be pissed? Agonized? Enraged? This is the last straw. At least this time, "Khaaaaaaaaaan" has some meaning and is a justifiable primal scream.

If Trek fans laugh at it, I'd say it's because we always took it as an over-the-top laugh-line from TWOK. The risk the writers took this time was an attempt to finally give the line real gravitas. Too bad it seems to have failed for a lot of fans.

Dude, note perfect.

I had no problem with this version, but like you said, it has this stigma amongst fans with the terrible shatner version, which had been parodied to death, and because of that for a second or two, I was asking why, but soon after I accepted it and love that moment better than TWOK.

This version was so much more deserved. I prefer it in fact. When I watch trek movies now as a nearly 30 year old, I see them with nostalgic eyes as I grew up with them, but my older and wiser mind sees the flaws and, to be frank, takes me out of it as I can see the bad points I couldn't as a child, such as most of shatners acting and lines that just dont work.

Spock here as said, being half human, his emotions bubbling under the surface had hit breaking point, cried, got enraged and went and gave khan a Vulcan pummelling. =D

 

[Jon1701]

Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

They must've decided to take a chance that fans would get lost in the moment and not immediately make the connection. Must not have worked out well for many. I haven't seen the movie yet (I'm on a one-week countdown), so I guess I'll see how I react then.

There is not a Star Trek fan alive who couldn't make this connection...Seriously.

It's such a shame because the scene is quite touching even though not even 0.0001% of my brain would allow me to consider the possibility that Kirk was going to die.

The resolution was so telegraphed in advance it was impossible to think of anything else.

 

[M'Sharak]

Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

I really don't think it was in anyway a remake. Not even close.

Yep, they remade a scene (which was actually nicely done) and reused a famous line (which was godawful and killed said scene), but otherwise the film couldn't be more different to "Space Seed" or "Wrath of Khan". Different situations, different motivations, different story.

Yeah. WOK had the good sense not to send the Enterprise underwater.

There's a clear topic in this thread (which is the only reason for its continued existence outside the Grading & Discussion thread) and the only possible reason for your post would involve intent to derail from it. Warned.

...

Yeah. WOK had the good sense not to send the Enterprise underwater.

Yeah, it only had magic torpedoes making habitable planets out of thin air and bringing the dead back in child form in the process.
Much better.

Didn't require a response.

Yeah. WOK had the good sense not to send the Enterprise underwater.

Are you STILL not over Star Trek: Insurrection? That was 15 years ago

Ditto. Don't feed what doesn't merit feeding.

 

[Skellington]

Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

And then, "the line".

About 3 months ago I went to a screening of Wrath of Khan and whilst it was a friendly croud, there were plenty of people who I'm not sure were Star Trek fans laughing ironically during Kirk's "Khaaaaaaan!". Laughing. Laughing out loud.

This may happen again. Only this time, it might be us.

I burst out laughing when I heard it, though not loudly. Didn't hear other people guffawing or anything.

I think someone might have been aiming for a new internet meme, and this will no doubt happen if it hasn't already.

Anyway, maybe it came pretty close to farcical, but it didn't ruin the movie for this viewer. Would still rate it as an excellent rollercoaster ride with some great dialogue and acting and not too much egregious use of special effects.

 

[Kemaiku]

Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

Am I the only one who didn't have a problem with the line?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

I had to be the first to do it!

 

[Relayer1]

Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

Am I the only one who didn't have a problem with the line?

I didn't either...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

I had to be the first to do it!

Great! Where'd you get the image?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

After seeing the movie I tracked down all the clips on Youtube which I'd avoided. They put it in the Spock Disruption one.

 

[Kemaiku]

Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

Sorry but I don't see the problem, Quinto's performance sold it for me, he'd been bottling up a hell of a lot of emotion for who knows how long, it was a plot point throughout the film, it was eating at him the entire time, the meld with Pike only brought him more hopelessness then he watched his best friend die inches away. No one else in the theatre today had a problem with it either.

 

[Pindar]

Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

Am I the only one who didn't have a problem with the line?

I didn't either...

I didn't, I thought it was great. The whole scene I thought was well realised and I enjoyed the flipped took scene.

The Khan scream did raise a smile though, but I thought it worked.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

excellent rollercoaster ride

Yeah. I have to forgive

Man I hope the second viewing helps me here.

 

[Phily B]

Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

Saw it a second time, in isolation I think it kinda works...

 

[Destructor]

I laughed. I pretty much knew that, once Kahn was revealed as the villain, someone was going to yell KAHN!!! at some point. This movie was, in large part, a nostalgia piece, riffing on stuff we remember from the original series (miniskirts, Kirk banging alien chicks, Spock being logical, etc), but with not a lot of sense to it at times. It was ridiculous and unrealistic, but I admit I laughed out loud at the reference.

 

[Destructor]

Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

I had to be the first to do it!

I LOVE IT!

 

[Oso Blanco]

Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

After seeing the movie I tracked down all the clips on Youtube which I'd avoided. They put it in the Spock Disruption one.

I wonder why nobody jumped on that scene when the clip had been released. Probably because no one in their wildest nightmares ever thought that they were going to let Spock yell Khaaaaan!

 

[Kpnuts]

Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

Am I the only one who didn't have a problem with the line?

I didn't either...

Same. I thought it was great, particularly when followed up by that amazing shot of the Vengeance flying past the Enterprise.

 

[Michael]

Re: Spocks line *Major Major Spoilers*

I had to be the first to do it!

Oh God, I can't tell you how ridiculous I find his facial expression! He really doesn't have a face that's able to do this and still look cool, sorry. I just looks soooo fake, acted and put on.