But are they Mutants, Inhumans, infinity stone enhanced humans or Wungadorian Mutates?
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Spoilers Spider-Man: Brand New Day grade and discussion thread
But are they Mutants, Inhumans, infinity stone enhanced humans or Wungadorian Mutates?
I'm guessing to the general public in the MCU it's probably not going to matter very much.
America will not be able to hold a straight face, if Lizzy Olsen looks at the camera and says "My daddy is the Wizzer!"
As evidence by SDCC presentation
They don’t want to cast 7 people for the new -X-Men and then 6 months later find out one of the actors is in trouble with the law and they have to recast
Back to Spider-Man brand new day. Anyone notice that Jeans sister hair tie is the color of her eventual costume Green and Yellow?
I did notice that about the hair tie, but would point out that Marvel is going to be making a big presentation at d23 in less than 2 weeks.
I just watched the film a second time and I loved it even more. I had a few issues the first time around and I think more comfortable with those issues now with watching with a critical eye on the second viewing.
MJ & Ned's Memories
My biggest issue was the transition from Peter and MJ's heartfelt conversation about what Peter did to MJ's sudden invite to come upstairs to talk to Ned. Two things stood out to me this time around:
Perhaps I'm overanalyzing this situation in order to come to terms with that awkward transition, but this particular perspective works for me. Even if I still feel MJ may have become a little too relaxed in the apartment, but perhaps her drawing was her coping mechanism during that reconnect?
Jean Grey
My other major issue was Jean's actions. We've already discussed in length about the morality of Jean's actions. I kept all of that firmly in my mind while watching Jean's arc and I'm now more comfortable with it (for the most part).
I think the core thing to keep in mind is Jean is a still teenager (a child in Metzger's own words) and she was reacting to two traumatic events. Not just the immediate horror of watching her sister kidnapped in broad daylight by masked goons in an unmarked vans (hmmm....), but also the lasting pain of abandonment by her mother upon Jean and Sara's powers manifesting. This is a young woman who is dealing with unrelenting trauma, fueled by both justifiable fear and righteous fury, and driven by powers that she doesn't fully understand or properly appreciate the ramifications of what those abilities would result in.
To be clear, I'm letting not her off the hook for the amount of collateral damage she left in her wake. I'm merely trying to put context to that collateral damage. More to the point, I think that almost all of the harm she caused was "just" collateral damage and she never directly intended to kill anyone. When she broke into the Damage Control safe via Frank, she only shot to harm the guards and not to kill. This is made clear when she threatened Metzger's life only because he was her primary target to find Sara. That being said, I agree the moment with the guy stepping in front of the taxi is bad, although I don't think the taxi was going at full speed and probably didn't kill him (but, yes, he was probably badly injured).
Again, perhaps I'm overthinking this scenario but I do think Jean does deserve some empathy for her actions. I maintain that she isn't the villain (that's clearly Damage Control), rather she's only an antagonist. Whether or not she deserves redemption is up for discussion. Regardless, I love how Peter reached out to Jean via his memory of May and offered May's own advice to Jean, finally giving Jean just a tiny bit of motherly love and respect that Jean so desperately needed.
Whew. I didn't expect talk so in depth on both of those issues but I really hope people at least appreciate what I'm trying to discuss.
Easter Eggs
Which leads me to some lighter moments of the film I wanted to bring up, i.e. the plethora of Easter eggs throughout the film!
MJ & Ned's Memories
My biggest issue was the transition from Peter and MJ's heartfelt conversation about what Peter did to MJ's sudden invite to come upstairs to talk to Ned. Two things stood out to me this time around:
- The first was how the letter conversation ended with MJ acknowledging that she's not that MJ, but she she understands why Peter did what he did. She doesn't love him like that MJ did but she sees how that MJ did. To me, that was her coming to terms with Peter's actions while also not accepting Peter's apology. This was a small step towards her emphasizing with Peter's decision.
- The second thing that stood out to me was the wesbsling home. I noticed this time around how MJ reacted during each of the three trips. The first time, under Jean's control, she had no reaction to the webslinging because Jean was acting out the role of MJ having a subconscious reaction to the familiarity of the webslinging. The second, MJ freaked out about the webslinging because, for her now, she has never done it before and she doesn't know what to expect (on top of reeling from the traumatic experience of waking up midfall to Peter's rescue). The third, she's quiet again but we the viewer get to see her face for the first time and she's in deep thought about the letter conversation
Perhaps I'm overanalyzing this situation in order to come to terms with that awkward transition, but this particular perspective works for me. Even if I still feel MJ may have become a little too relaxed in the apartment, but perhaps her drawing was her coping mechanism during that reconnect?
Jean Grey
My other major issue was Jean's actions. We've already discussed in length about the morality of Jean's actions. I kept all of that firmly in my mind while watching Jean's arc and I'm now more comfortable with it (for the most part).
I think the core thing to keep in mind is Jean is a still teenager (a child in Metzger's own words) and she was reacting to two traumatic events. Not just the immediate horror of watching her sister kidnapped in broad daylight by masked goons in an unmarked vans (hmmm....), but also the lasting pain of abandonment by her mother upon Jean and Sara's powers manifesting. This is a young woman who is dealing with unrelenting trauma, fueled by both justifiable fear and righteous fury, and driven by powers that she doesn't fully understand or properly appreciate the ramifications of what those abilities would result in.
To be clear, I'm letting not her off the hook for the amount of collateral damage she left in her wake. I'm merely trying to put context to that collateral damage. More to the point, I think that almost all of the harm she caused was "just" collateral damage and she never directly intended to kill anyone. When she broke into the Damage Control safe via Frank, she only shot to harm the guards and not to kill. This is made clear when she threatened Metzger's life only because he was her primary target to find Sara. That being said, I agree the moment with the guy stepping in front of the taxi is bad, although I don't think the taxi was going at full speed and probably didn't kill him (but, yes, he was probably badly injured).
Again, perhaps I'm overthinking this scenario but I do think Jean does deserve some empathy for her actions. I maintain that she isn't the villain (that's clearly Damage Control), rather she's only an antagonist. Whether or not she deserves redemption is up for discussion. Regardless, I love how Peter reached out to Jean via his memory of May and offered May's own advice to Jean, finally giving Jean just a tiny bit of motherly love and respect that Jean so desperately needed.
Whew. I didn't expect talk so in depth on both of those issues but I really hope people at least appreciate what I'm trying to discuss.
Easter Eggs
Which leads me to some lighter moments of the film I wanted to bring up, i.e. the plethora of Easter eggs throughout the film!
- A Mayor Kingpin poster on a alley dumpster while Peter was field testing the inhibitor.
- Men in Black (not sure which one since it was oddly not credited alongside The Empire Strikes Back footage) plays in the lobby of Yelena's "office," which is a neat nod to Strange's memory spell.
- Ned's theory is a nice deep cout about Flash being Spidey when early days comics Flash pretended to be Spider-Man to give Peter deniability against a foe who believed Peter was Spider-Man.
- References to both the Raimi (awkward interactions with a cute girl in the apartment building) and the Spider-Verse films (Peter's yells of joy while webslinging across the city, awkwardly running into pigeons while dealing with his new powers) and I'm sure there must be references to the Webb films, too.
- Lastly, I adored how the Marvel logo was completely focused on the Holland films, making it only the second time (I think) for the Marvel logo to focus on a singular character after Wakanda Forever's tribute to Chadwick Bosman.
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"Hi, you've all be cast as X-Men in a new major motion picture, congratulations, you should all be proud, but just to be safe, if you don't mind, we are willing to pay you each 2 million dollars if you let us put you into a medically induced coma for the next two years until we are willing to start filming. Fine."
We saw how Peter was 24/7 Spider-Man essentially but I felt he’s able to coast along on his own too well
-Spider-Man was way too cozy with the cops and public. Me thinks a certain black symbiote might undo the goodwill Spider-Man has built
This could turn the tables and make MJ AND Ned be the ones to make Peter remember who he is and what he stands for
- He’s got his own personal AI voiced by Naomi Watts which was a nice touch
I was wondering how he’s financing all this. We don’t even see that he has a job. The Daily bugle is not a newpaper anymore but more of an Alex Jones show
-Spider-Man was way too cozy with the cops and public. Me thinks a certain black symbiote might undo the goodwill Spider-Man has built
This could turn the tables and make MJ AND Ned be the ones to make Peter remember who he is and what he stands for
- He’s got his own personal AI voiced by Naomi Watts which was a nice touch
I was wondering how he’s financing all this. We don’t even see that he has a job. The Daily bugle is not a newpaper anymore but more of an Alex Jones show
Yes. The hair tie was focused on a lot.
Something I haven’t seen mentioned yet…
They heavily foreshadowed Frank shooting Spider-Man in the beginning when he didn’t think twice about shooting him in the tank chase.
Also it was a strong parallel between Jean causing a lot of collateral damage AND Peter who very nearly killed a cop in his fight with not-Scorpion.
Entire Spider-Man screening evacuated after film-goers' rancid farts cause chaos
Movie fans expected Spider-Man to save the day – instead they were forced to fee when one mystery cinema-goer's rancid fart reportedly emptied the entire screening within minutes
if jean grey is in mcu spider man 4 aka spiderman brand new day then where is the current mcu x men lol
do they exist in the current mcu or not just yet
do they exist in the current mcu or not just yet
Unclear. Jean exists. The Fox Men will appear in the upcoming Avengers in the climax of the multiverse saga.
Wonder Man and Kamala Khan are implied to be mutants.
That’s it so farZ
I thought it was the best of Tom Holland's movies for sure. I think Destin Daniel Cretton did a really great job as director. I liked the Jon Watts trilogy fine, but this felt like a big step up in terms of just feeling and looking like a movie? The action was all smooth (that fight with the Hand was one of the best fight scenes in all the MCU) and all the web-swinging looked great. I know the Watts movies intentionally moved away from having much of Spider-Man actually in New York and swinging between buildings and stuff...but maybe they shouldn't have, because that stuff is awesome. You mess with Spider-Man, you mess with New York.
It was Holland's best performance in anything (okay I've never actually seen him outside the MCU) and Sadie Sink, Zendaya and Jon Bernthaal were all really strong too.
Punisher was soooooo much better in this than his pretty bad Disney+ special. He really works best when someone is pushing back on his murderous philosophy and isn't just free to walk around shooting people while going "RRRRRR!" The part where he waved to the Spidey-fans in the mask was really sweet. Florence Pugh is always great and welcome. Hulk was the most superfluous of the guest characters - and it's very sad he just gets carted off to a mental hospital in the end - but "Spider-Man and Punisher fighting the Hulk" is still a very fun comic book come to life moment.
I don't have a problem with Jean being dangerours and downright nasty at times here, but I would have maybe liked her to have acknowledged all the people she hurt. There was a nice mature moment from Peter where he apologised to MJ for kissing her when she was possessed, but we don't get anything like that from Jean. I'll assume Pete's "you're not a killer" line to her should be taken as true, but she did throw a guy in front of a taxi, drive a tank through a busy New York and blow up a bunch of buildings. So either she got lucky or we're supposed to think she somehow did all those things in a way that she knew wouldn't kill anyone.
I would have maybe liked the classic Spider-Man villains to have played a larger role, like maybe Scorpion could have been more of a threat and not just there to show how much more powerful Peter is now. But it's not a big deal.
So yeah it's good.
It was Holland's best performance in anything (okay I've never actually seen him outside the MCU) and Sadie Sink, Zendaya and Jon Bernthaal were all really strong too.
Punisher was soooooo much better in this than his pretty bad Disney+ special. He really works best when someone is pushing back on his murderous philosophy and isn't just free to walk around shooting people while going "RRRRRR!" The part where he waved to the Spidey-fans in the mask was really sweet. Florence Pugh is always great and welcome. Hulk was the most superfluous of the guest characters - and it's very sad he just gets carted off to a mental hospital in the end - but "Spider-Man and Punisher fighting the Hulk" is still a very fun comic book come to life moment.
I don't have a problem with Jean being dangerours and downright nasty at times here, but I would have maybe liked her to have acknowledged all the people she hurt. There was a nice mature moment from Peter where he apologised to MJ for kissing her when she was possessed, but we don't get anything like that from Jean. I'll assume Pete's "you're not a killer" line to her should be taken as true, but she did throw a guy in front of a taxi, drive a tank through a busy New York and blow up a bunch of buildings. So either she got lucky or we're supposed to think she somehow did all those things in a way that she knew wouldn't kill anyone.
I would have maybe liked the classic Spider-Man villains to have played a larger role, like maybe Scorpion could have been more of a threat and not just there to show how much more powerful Peter is now. But it's not a big deal.
So yeah it's good.
Of course, Jean Grey was a saint in this movie. Everything she did was justifiable, even with the time bomb in the tank, she didn't intend to kill anyone. 
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