Spoilers Spider-Man: Brand New Day grade and discussion thread

[Turtletrekker]

Deadline interview with Amy Pascal.

'Spider-Man: Brand New Day' Producer Amy Pascal Q&A

Spider-Man: Brand New Day producer Amy Pascal discusses the weekend's record box office and why the movie works.

deadline.com

 

[JD]

As evidence by SDCC presentation

They don’t want to cast 7 people for the new -X-Men and then 6 months later find out one of the actors is in trouble with the law and they have to recast

Back to Spider-Man brand new day. Anyone notice that Jeans sister hair tie is the color of her eventual costume Green and Yellow?

Yeah, I noticed the scrunchie too.
My mom and I saw this this morning and we both liked it.
I think this had the best action of any of the Spider-Man movies or at least the Holland ones.
Yelena is one of my favorite MCU characters, so I loved her showing up in this. I had no idea she was going to be in it, so her showing up was the biggest surprise for me, since I already spoiled myself on Jean.
As for Jean, I like how they handled her here. Yeah, she did some pretty bad stuff, and I don't know if I'd say her action were justifiable, but they were at least understandable. And I do like the fact that Peter got through to her by being sympathetic, instead of just giving us more CGI infused fighting. It will be interesting to see how they pick things up with her in the first X-Men movie, I don't think she's totally irredeemable, but I do hope they at least acknowledge how bad all of this was.
After he was introduced in Homecoming, it was cool to see Gargan back and in the full Scorpion suit this time. I also got a kick out of the Boomerang and Tombstone cameos.
I did like how they handled Peter reuniting with MJ and Ned. Although I do wonder how Peter doing his handshake with Ned seemed to return his memory, but none of the stuff he did with MJ brought hers back.
I was pretty happy with how Hulk and Punisher were used.
I'm curious what Jean and Sarah just kind of existing means for the wider MCU. Does this mean that mutants have been around, and they nobody knows about them? I forgot until someone mentioned it up thread that they did talk about Kamala being a mutant, so I guess we already know that. But I think it's a safe bet that the X-Men aren't a thing yet.
I was a little shocked when they first introduced Damage Control and they were so friendly with Spider-Man since pretty much every other time we've seen them, they were, if not outright bad guys, then at least working against and complicating things for the heroes. So I was not at all shocked when we got the reveal of what they did to Sarah and what they did to Jean.
Is Sarah a new character? I don't remember any of the other versions of Jean mentioning a sister, but there's still a lot of the X-Men's comic book history I'm not super familiar with.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

From what I’ve heard Sarah is an existing character but not sharing powers with Jean in the comics?

 

[Anwar]

From what I’ve heard Sarah is an existing character but not sharing powers with Jean in the comics?

She's always been in the comics as Jeans' sister. She doesn't have powers, IIRC.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

It might have been a blink and you’ll miss it moment in the opening montage, (and I missed it), but wasn’t the new Mayor supposed to be in this and give Spidey the key to the city or something?

 

[Kai "the spy"]

It might have been a blink and you’ll miss it moment in the opening montage, (and I missed it), but wasn’t the new Mayor supposed to be in this and give Spidey the key to the city or something?

She was, and it was.

 

[theenglish]

Uhm, have you seen the movie?

Peter has not moved on. He's been stalking MJ and Ned over Social Media for 4 years, crashes their housewarming party and inadvertantly gets them mixed up in the current crisis of the movie. It leads to MJ discovering the truth via the letter, he gets invited to hang out in a non-party setting and at the end it seems he can restore Ned's memories ( can be a fakeout though).

At worst Peter and MJ may fall in love again over the course of this new trilogy and they don't restore MJ's and Ned's memories or they find a way to do so, which would disappoint me.

I just saw the movie today. I'll share the why in a follow up post but, I don't think that's the case: Ned remembers the handshake and he knows who Peter is because MJ explained it all to him (off screen), but he doesn't regain his memories--he just connects Peter with this unremembered classmate who shook hands with him like that.

As no one else has posted yet, here are some of my thoughts. I've avoided this thread since people started posting about the movie last week--so I admit that I have not read every post and apologize if I'm repeating anything others have already said. I'll try to put major spoilers in code, but I am going to mention other things generally that aren't major plot revelations without code. I do think the big opening weekend is not just because it's a Spider-Man film. Tom Holland and Zendaya are also in the other biggest film of the summer, and Zendaya and Sadie Sink are two of the most recognizable actresses in the world thanks to their exposure on television that was highly popular in other countries.

1. Best Tom Holland Spider-Man film, and possibly best Spider-Man film. It captured the heart and spirit of the 70s Spider-Man, which is when I was introduced to the character. I loved seeing Spider-Man in his old style costume, loved that he kept having awkward moments about keeping his mask on, even when he wasn't weaering anything else, other than his boxers. And it was nice to see a super-hero movie keep the main character in his mask for most of the film. (DC should take notes on this film for a future Batman project.)

2. The movie handled Peter's Spider Evolution better than the comics did and handled the Brand New Day concept better as well. (Yes, I know the point in the comics was to have a reboot of the character as a jumping on point for new readers.)

3. This movie proved that Frank can work in the dark, gritty Punisher world (I haven't seen the recent special) and the super-hero world at the same time with the same actor. (DC, please see my parenthetical point from the first item.)

4. There was no reason the Jean Grey character had to be kept secret. What did it serve, really? Sadie was, of course, great in this. She's a future Oscar winning actress.

5. The final fight with The Hand was great. It wasn't overly drawn out, it was quick and punchy, and the way it was shot meant you could easily follow the action. I loved how Peter's physical powers and web-slinging abilities are amped up here and hope that he stays at that power level going forward

6. I loved the fight with the real Hulk, and a nice nod to the fights in the comics, and that Hulk knows who Peter is. Great uses of Peter's webslinging in this scene as well. It was also a nice touch that he's all bruised up when he takes off his mask for MJ later on, but heals quickly.


7. As for the Jean Grey being a terrorist and the villain, I think she clearly meets the criteria for both roles--but her motives are something future movies can work with in her redemption. The innocents she killed were collateral damage as she lashed out with her powers and even what she did to Peter when she was in MJs body was done out of pure anger and grief. I assume that she will suffer feelings of guilt over the innocent people she killed, and that will play a major role with her character going forward. For those saying otherwise, there are multiple characters, including the entirety of the New Avengers who have committed crimes on level with what Jean does here. And, as was pointed out earlier, Tony Stark's first movie was all about him realizing the crimes people have committed with his weapons. She is obviously incredibly powerful and, at the same time, does not have all her abilities yet.

8. I think it is totally believeable that MJ invites Peter into the apartment. She doesn't have to have forgiven him to realize that he is fundamentally a good person, and she knows Ned would never forgive her if she didn't. It did give Peter and MJ a nice moment together and it was fun to see Peter and Ned bonding.

9. The Handshake: I really don't believe that Ned suddenly got his memories back. It does seem to me like MJ filled him in on the relative details of her encounter with Peter, and Ned's already heard her use the name. So he knows that Peter is an old high school friend. When he shakes Peter's hand, I'm guessing that Ned suddenly remembered this friend with whom he used to shake hands like that even if he doesn't have a face or name or other details to go with that memory. Ned's a smart guy and puts it together at the very end. Rather than getting his memories back, the handshake serves as proof that he and Peter were indeed good friends.

10. Are we promised a new trilogy of movies at this point? If not, I'm actually concerned that this is the end of the Parker era of movies. We know Miles joining the MCU is on the horizon, and even though the end credits say Spider-Man will return that could mean in a group movie rather than a solo movie. Also, the opening montage being devoted to only Holland's early appearances came across to me as a little forboding. I was actually caught off guard by the ending of the movie and really thought that Peter was going to die.

11. Finally, I really liked how Peter was portrayed as highly intelligent in this movie. Not only was he shown as a scientist and an engineer, but he was also a great detective. It was great how he was portrayed as an actual hero, loved by the people of New York. The opening sequence of the four year span between the movies was really well done.

(I planned on making only ten points but then realized I needed that extra ummph and pushed it up to eleven.)

 

[Guy Gardener]

She's always been in the comics as Jeans' sister. She doesn't have powers, IIRC.

Sara and Paul's children, twins, are mutants.

 

[StarMan]

Of course, Jean Grey was a saint in this movie. Everything she did was justifiable, even with the time bomb in the tank, she didn't intend to kill anyone.

This is just it. Even if she miraculously didn't kill (or go out of her way to kill) anyone - even including the poor bastard she casually plopped in front of high speed traffic - she certainly didn't appear to go to any meaningful effort to avoid killing anyone.

 

[Gryffindorian]

This is just it. Even if she miraculously didn't kill (or go out of her way to kill) anyone - even including the poor bastard she casually plopped in front of high speed traffic - she certainly didn't appear to go to any meaningful effort to avoid killing anyone.

If I were to hijack a tank and break into any private or government facility (ain't gonna happen) because some entity wronged me, I'd get branded as a terrorist. No question about it. But oh no, I'm entitled to revenge. I'm comin' atcha!

 

[The Nth Doctor]

If I were to hijack a tank and break into any private or government facility (ain't gonna happen) because some entity wronged me, I'd get branded as a terrorist. No question about it. But oh no, I'm entitled to revenge. I'm comin' atcha!

The problem is you're insisting on treating this as a black-and-white issue when there's more nuance to Jean's situation.

I don't think anyone is saying she's not at fault. As I argued in detail yesterday, she at least deserves some empathy but, at the same time, she is still responsible.

 

[Turtletrekker]

The problem is you're insisting on treating this as a black-and-white issue when there's more nuance to Jean's situation.

I don't think anyone is saying she's not at fault. As I argued in detail yesterday, she at least deserves some empathy but, at the same time, she is still responsible.

And take a look at her situation. Her sister is kidnapped by a government agency. She is contained without charge or representation and murdered while in custody and now the same people are after her. Who is Jean supposed to go to? If she goes to any authorities, she'll just wind up right where her sister was, and indeed did wind up there and in the same situation and facing the same fate.

And people expect her to just go, "oh well I guess I'll just die then"? How else could she have responded? What else could she have done? Sure, her response had unfortunate effect, and there should be consequences for it. However, she was not the diabolical villain that some people here seem to want to make her out to be. She was put into a desperate situation which required desperate measures. She did not ask or choose to be put into that situation. And I and as I said earlier, this is the stuff redemption arcs are made of and that's where compelling storytelling comes from.

 

[Booji]

Jean and her sister were literally in the middle of committing a crime when Damage Control took Sarah. Maybe she wouldn't haven't gotten arrested if she didn't mindfuck multiple civilians?

 

[theenglish]

The problem is you're insisting on treating this as a black-and-white issue when there's more nuance to Jean's situation.

I don't think anyone is saying she's not at fault. As I argued in detail yesterday, she at least deserves some empathy but, at the same time, she is still responsible.

Exactly--it was a government organization she was attacking, but it is a fundamentally evil organization. A real world context might be the ANC, which was labeled a terrorist organization by the apartheid government and, through the MK I believe, was responsible for civilian deaths via bombings. It was labeled a terrorist organization until 2008.

And take a look at her situation. Her sister is kidnapped by a government agency. She is contained without charge or representation and murdered while in custody and now the same people are after her. Who is Jean supposed to go to? If she goes to any authorities, she'll just wind up right where her sister was, and indeed did wind up there and in the same situation and facing the same fate.

And people expect her to just go, "oh well I guess I'll just die then"? How else could she have responded? What else could she have done? Sure, her response had unfortunate effect, and there should be consequences for it. However, she was not the diabolical villain that some people here seem to want to make her out to be. She was put into a desperate situation which required desperate measures. She did not ask or choose to be put into that situation. And I and as I said earlier, this is the stuff redemption arcs are made of and that's where compelling storytelling comes from.

I really loved how this was handled in the movie, and it really demonstrated what an upstanding character Peter is how he found compassion in the moment for Jean despite the things she'd done.

 

[FreezeC77]

The problem is you're insisting on treating this as a black-and-white issue when there's more nuance to Jean's situation.

I don't think anyone is saying she's not at fault. As I argued in detail yesterday, she at least deserves some empathy but, at the same time, she is still responsible.

For me. I just don't get why some are not able to contextualize this in the MCU and compare it to known characters with A LOT of blood on their hands who are now considered 'heroes' or the good guys.

Did she commit crimes? Yea she did. This is a fictional movie universe. I would need thousands of fingers and toes to count the number of fictional characters I have seen commit crimes while seeking 'justice' or fighting against an empowered evil force while endangering (or even having die) civilians as a result.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Jean and her sister were literally in the middle of committing a crime when Damage Control took Sarah. Maybe she wouldn't haven't gotten arrested if she didn't mindfuck multiple civilians?

Arrested and detained without charge or representation and executed while in custody. Put her up on charges and put her in front of a judge with a lawyer, then I would agree with you.

 

[theenglish]

Arrested and detained without charge or representation and executed while in custody. Put her up on charges and put her in front of a judge with a lawyer, then I would agree with you.

That was the key. It's a quasi-legal organization---and I'm going to guess that it will be the X-Men's nemesis in the upcoming movies and responsible for creating the Sentinal Program. It would not surprise me that that is what this movie is setting up.

 

[Saul]

I watched it today. I enjoyed it a lot and it landed the emotional beats perfectly. But the film feels like it's missing something. A big action set piece or a real villain to defeat. I guess I'm a bit too used to the spiderman movie formula usually having those.

Does Ned remember? They have 3 or 4 years to decide if he does.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

The problem is you're insisting on treating this as a black-and-white issue when there's more nuance to Jean's situation.

It's a Grey area.

 

[Gryffindorian]

The problem is you're insisting on treating this as a black-and-white issue when there's more nuance to Jean's situation.

I don't think anyone is saying she's not at fault. As I argued in detail yesterday, she at least deserves some empathy but, at the same time, she is still responsible.

I don't see any problems. Jean Grey was a villain in the story. Not saying she was the only one. Can't a villain be complicated?