Spoilers Spider-Man: Brand New Day grade and discussion thread

[Turtletrekker]

Yeah, if only there was someone out there who could train Jean in how to use her powers safely and set her on a redemption arc...

And I'll agree about Wanda. She studied the Darkhold of her own free will despite the warnings she received about it. But at the end, even she seemingly sacrificed herself to destroy the damned (literally) thing.

 

[Gryffindorian]

Tony Stark was the character who opposed the hero in Captain America: Civil War.

Point taken. Did he stay that way through the rest of the Avengers/Marvel series? To begin with, was he a bad guy who terrorized innocents with his high tech armor?

Not saying he was a perfect character, but neither was Natasha/Black Widow, who assassinated countless people and did terrible things in her career. She wasn't a villain.

I'm talking about Jean Grey in the context of Spider-Man BND. You can't say she's not a villain in the story. Just because she had a vulnerable moment at the end with dear Aunt May and Peter doesn't negate the fact that she used, possessed, and hurt innocents and bystanders to further her goals. Just like Flint Marko in Spider-Man 3 wasn't not a villain for only wanting to help his sick daughter (not MCU, but you get the picture).

 

[JoeZhang]

That was left rather vague. I would have to watch it again but I got the sense his evolving powers were spurred by Jean's invasion of Peter's mind, regardless of how successful she was in her attempt.

Just coming back to this, I watched it again - they foreshadow it his organic webs in the title sequence *before* he meets Jean with his wrists hurting and a close-up.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Point taken. Did he stay that way through the rest of the Avengers/Marvel series? To begin with, was he a bad guy who terrorized innocents with his high tech armor?

Not saying he was a perfect character, but neither was Natasha/Black Widow, who assassinated countless people and did terrible things in her career. She wasn't a villain.

I'm talking about Jean Grey in the context of Spider-Man BND. You can't say she's not a villain in the story. Just because she had a vulnerable moment at the end with dear Aunt May and Peter doesn't negate the fact that she used, possessed, and hurt innocents and bystanders to further her goals. Just like Flint Marko in Spider-Man 3 wasn't not a villain for only wanting to help his sick daughter (not MCU, but you get the picture).

He stayed that way in the story of Civil War. He literally tries to murder an innocent man in the climax. Before or after Civil War is logically not relevant to this analogy unless you're willing to afford Jean the same leniency for her becoming a hero after BND, which we know inevitably will happen.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Point taken. Did he stay that way through the rest of the Avengers/Marvel series? To begin with, was he a bad guy who terrorized innocents with his high tech armor?

Not saying he was a perfect character, but neither was Natasha/Black Widow, who assassinated countless people and did terrible things in her career. She wasn't a villain.

I'm talking about Jean Grey in the context of Spider-Man BND. You can't say she's not a villain in the story. Just because she had a vulnerable moment at the end with dear Aunt May and Peter doesn't negate the fact that she used, possessed, and hurt innocents and bystanders to further her goals. Just like Flint Marko in Spider-Man 3 wasn't not a villain for only wanting to help his sick daughter (not MCU, but you get the picture).

The entire world legally decided that they wanted the 20 known Super heroes at the time, mostly working for the World Security Council and S.H.I.E.L.D. to be answerable for their actions if they did a war-crime or even a simple ordinary crime, maybe probably because the World Security Council and S.H.I.E.L.D. had turned out to be Hydra, and a clever plot to destabilize the world since the end of WWII, foreshadowing the end of the world and the murder of billions.

The American Government is supposed to have the moral authority to say that some people have to die to secure their way of life, and that absolves Howard Stark and young Tony Stark of giving them enough audience to murder everyone on the planet 150 times over, even though American leadership turned out to be almost entirely Hydra since the fall of NAZI Germany.

Mutants are an artificial creation of the Celestials to protect their babies from Galactus. No Galactus, No Mutants. This version of Jean Grey in this universe is not a Mutant. There is no Charles Xavier School for Gifted Youngsters. There is no Deadpool (Never a mutant.). This Jean Grey, it is likely that her Family has been altered by Magic or Space Debris, and has nothing to do with the X-Gene, that does not exist "natively" in this universe. Family lines with exactly the same mutant powers is rare in Marvel Comics. Mutant Powers are supposed to be random, but there are exceptions. Jean and Sarah having the same powers SCREAMS that they are not mutants.

 

[oktay]

Sony's standard practice for making movies available for rent and purchase on Apple TV and Amazon is 45 days. However, because "No Way Home" was extremely successful at the box office, it was made available on Apple TV and Amazon after 90 days. Given that this film is expected to be even more successful at the box office than "Endgame," it will likely be available on rental and purchase services after 90 days as well.

The film is said to be available for rent and purchase starting November 17th.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Uhm, Kamala Khan and Namor have both been established as mutants in the MCU.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Just coming back to this, I watched it again - they foreshadow it his organic webs in the title sequence *before* he meets Jean with his wrists hurting and a close-up.

Ah, there we go. I wasn't sure. Thank you for the clarification.

As for Jean, I maintain that she wasn't a villain and rather she was an antagonist. I also agree that comparisons to both Tony and Wanda are valid because they were good people who made terrible decisions and ultimately corrected thos wrongs when they saw the error of their ways, just like Jean did.

 

[JoeZhang]

Something else - they talk about telepathy but I don't think Jean ever reads anyone's thoughts without possession?

Maybe this is how Charles is different? He can.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Ah, there we go. I wasn't sure. Thank you for the clarification.

As for Jean, I maintain that she wasn't a villain and rather she was an antagonist. I also agree that comparisons to both Tony and Wanda are valid because they were good people who made terrible decisions and ultimately corrected thos wrongs when they saw the error of their ways, just like Jean did.

This is one of those advantages of reading spoilers I previously mentioned. I did pick up on that and probably would not have without knowing that was coming.

Though the big rumors I knew were probably exaggerated was 1) Jean makes Peter a mutant! 2) other extreme was him being full Man-Spider as cliffhanger ending. I really just glanced at both of those. Honestly I really just skimmed Wikipedia summary day of release. Not really thinking about the details while watching the movie. More what we would know if this was made 30 years ago and trailer gave basic plot line “Spider-man struggles with changes in his powers while battling villian who can control other people’s bodies”.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Uhm, Kamala Khan and Namor have both been established as mutants in the MCU.

Kamala is an inhuman and much later a mutant in the comics.

Kamala on Disney Plus does not have powers, mutant, Inhuman or otherwise. She has a magic space Bangle. Although I'm reading that the bangle "activates" her powers, and the word "mutant" was used in the final episode, but that pivot was barely a graze into the world of X-Men, a year before she became a mutant in the comics.

Namor had been around for 50 years before they figured out that they could sell more Namor comics if he was considered a mutant, Cloak and Dagger fell into the fold at around about the same time too, under the "Heroes for the 90s" Banner.

It was criminally illegal for Marvel to do movies or TV about Mutants, until very recently, when Disney bought FOX, so if you think you saw a Mutant in the MCU before 2020, you didn't. Wow. That was a long time ago. Ms Marvel came out in 2022, so she could have been a Mutant except that the lack of Mutants had been grandfathered into the MCU.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Kamala is an inhuman and much later a mutant in the comics.

Kamala on Disney Plus does not have powers, mutant, Inhuman or otherwise. She has a magic space Bangle. Although I'm reading that the bangle "activates" her powers, and the word "mutant" was used at some point, but that pivot was barely a graze into the world of X-Men, seconds after it became legally feasible, years after her show in the Marvels movie?

Namor had been around for 50 years before they figured out that they could sell more Namor comics if he was considered a mutant, Cloak and Dagger fell into the fold at around about the same time too, under the "Heroes for the 90s" Banner.

It was criminally illegal for Marvel to do movies or TV about Mutants, until very recently, when Disney bought FOX, so if you think you saw a Mutant in the MCU before 2020, you didn't. Wow. That was a long time ago. Ms Marvel came out in 2022, so she could have been a Mutant except that the lack of Mutants had been grandfathered into the MCU.

Nope. Kamala was described as having a "mutation", and just in case there were any doubt about what that meant, they added the X-Men animated theme jingle to clarify. Likewise, Namor was also described as being a mutant.

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[Guy Gardener]

Nope. Kamala was described as having a "mutation", and just in case there were any doubt about what that meant, they added the X-Men animated theme jingle to clarify. Likewise, Namor was also described as being a mutant.

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No.

Namor was being poetic, and Bruno was in over his head.

These may have been attempts to introduce the X-Men, but Marvel fumbled the ball and got lost.

 

[Turtletrekker]

No.

Namor was being poetic, and Bruno was in over his head.

These may have been attempts to introduce the X-Men, but Marvel fumbled the ball and got lost.

Sure, if you say so...

 

[Guy Gardener]

Sure, if you say so...

I don't think Namor can read and write, but you think he knows from Microscopes?

 

[oktay]

After the third movie, some people on Twitter are complaining that Peter will be extremely poor like in the Tobey films, and that they don't see him as poor because of the things he uses in the movie. However, the gadgets Peter uses aren't luxuries in America; they're things that the middle class can afford.

 

[oktay]

@Turtletrekker @Guy Gardener Why are you arguing? There's a Walt Disney Studios showcast on the 14th of D23. It will last 2 hours, and all of Disney's studios will announce future projects. There will probably be more information about the Marvel X-Men reboot's release date and its place in the MCU.

 

[bdub76]

One big back door pilot to reboot X-Men. It looked great in 3D. But I wouldn't recommend unless you see it in 3D. The visuals are impressive. But the story is a mess.

 

[Guy Gardener]

After the third movie, some people on Twitter are complaining that Peter will be extremely poor like in the Tobey films, and that they don't see him as poor because of the things he uses in the movie. However, the gadgets Peter uses aren't luxuries in America; they're things that the middle class can afford.

It's highly likely that most of Peters money is coated in cocain, just like Frank's.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Brand New Day opened with $355 million, the second highest opening weekend ever, just two million dollars short of Endgame.

Sony made such a horrible decision with this film.