Source Code - Grading/Discussion

[Harvey]

What twists did you think were telegraphed? I caught on to the idea that Colter may have been dead before that was revealed, but the thought that the "source code" as he perceived it was just a projection of his mind (and that the Colonel was reading his responses, not actually hearing them) both surprised me. I also liked that Jones, in two movies in a row, has used "You are the One and Only," both times with sufficient irony.

An excellent little sf movie. A shame the business has just been average (though it will be profitable).

 

[Admiral_Young]

Did I mention that in the original script that Colter's reveal at the end he's just supposed to be a brain hooked up to wires and stuff? It was a pretty shocking reveal that I didn't see coming. I was waiting for it in the movie and didn't like the change they made where they showed a part of his body.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

What twists did you think were telegraphed? I caught on to the idea that Colter may have been dead before that was revealed, but the thought that the "source code" as he perceived it was just a projection of his mind (and that the Colonel was reading his responses, not actually hearing them) both surprised me. I also liked that Jones, in two movies in a row, has used "You are the One and Only," both times with sufficient irony.

An excellent little sf movie. A shame the business has just been average (though it will be profitable).

1. That he was dead. Figured that out as soon as he asked where he was and they wouldn't tell him.
2. That the guy who dropped his wallet was the bomber. I pegged him the second time Colter went through the scenario.

Don't get me wrong, I very much enjoyed it. It just seemed like those things were supposed to be surprising and they weren't.

I didn't think him living on past the end of the 8 minutes was going to work, though. So, that was a legitimate surprise.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Derek. Yeah. It comes across that way in the script. Or at least it did to me. I'm sorry if I'm boring everyone with my script musings. I don't mean to. I'm still attached to it. It's what made me really be excited for this project in the first place.

 

[Yoda]

It's not like an M Night movie where as soon as you know the twist, there's no point. Ok... bad example, there is no point to an M Night movie whether you know the twist or not...

The various not-too-hard-to-see-coming twists in Moon and Source Code didn't get dragged out and seemed to be set up rather than payoff. It seems like you were meant to figure them out a bit ahead of time, and probably meant to feel you were smarter than you really were for doing so.

Anyway I really liked the movie. Had humor, action, suspense, and a sci-fi premise that makes you think a little. Sign me up for whatever Duncan Jones 3 is.

 

[DeafPoet]

It's not like an M Night movie where as soon as you know the twist, there's no point. Ok... bad example, there is no point to an M Night movie whether you know the twist or not...

The various not-too-hard-to-see-coming twists in Moon and Source Code didn't get dragged out and seemed to be set up rather than payoff. It seems like you were meant to figure them out a bit ahead of time, and probably meant to feel you were smarter than you really were for doing so.

I saw it yesterday and came in to post an M. Night comparison. Jones seems to understand that a twist is good but it's not enough to hang a movie on. Especially not a sci-fi movie. You should take a cool idea and then explore the possible weird implications of that idea. Don't end the film once you finally introduce it and then pat yourself on the back.

Sure, shocking twist endings are cool the first time you see them but it severely limits the enduring appeal of the film. If the twist is everything then there's nothing there for the viewer after you finish the damn thing. By contrast, Moon and Source Code drop the twist by the time you're 45 minutes in and now you're actually dealing with the weird shit you threw at the audience.

I give it an A-. I was very, very impressed. Gyllenhaal smoked the lead role and the direction was almost perfect. It's been more than 24 hours since I've seen it and I'm still mulling it over. Always a good sign for a movie.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I've seen it three times now and my opinion hasn't really changed much from what I posted originally in the thread. Loved it. Although I still enjoy the original spec script more. As I've mentioned the rewrites I think took a bit away from the heart and soul of the original spec script. That being said I'm really looking forward to the DVD release. Must buy. It will go next to my "Moon" DVD!

 

[Myasishchev]

I thought this short article (which quotes Jones) has an interesting perspective on the ending.

Spoiler: Duncan Jones on the ending

"So Colter Stevens, at the end of the film, begs Goodwin to let him take one more shot at sorting out this disaster on the train, stopping the bomb from going off. So he gets sent, he gets on the train, in what he discovers to be a parallel reality, stops the bomb going off, which means Sean Fentress is now dead although he shouldn’t be… Colter has basically forfeited Sean Fentress’ life just so he, Colter Stevens, can have a happy ending. I like that, because immediately although we have a happy ending, it’s ethically a little bit more ambiguous."

See, this is why Zowie Bowie is the smartest guy making movies today.

Did I mention that in the original script that Colter's reveal at the end he's just supposed to be a brain hooked up to wires and stuff? It was a pretty shocking reveal that I didn't see coming. I was waiting for it in the movie and didn't like the change they made where they showed a part of his body.

I really fail to perceive the effective difference. It's a somewhat more engaging visual, I suppose.

It's not like an M Night movie where as soon as you know the twist, there's no point. Ok... bad example, there is no point to an M Night movie whether you know the twist or not...

I dunno, the problem with Shyamalan films is that the point overwhelms everything: plot, character, logic, dialogue--probably crafts services is effected by the dull, blunt, clublike "points" Shyamalan beats one over the head with.

(Sixth Sense was pretty great though, even if I think I'm out of step with the majority opinion when I say it merits repeat viewings.)

Anyway, I agree that Jones is the far superior creator. I see the point about how he uses twists far more effectively (which is to say, to close the first or second acts); but I'm not sure it's an appropriate comparison. It's like apples and extremely bad directors.

 

[Canadave]

Just saw this the other night, and very much enjoyed it. Not as good as Moon, but still a solid A-.

With regards to the current discussion, I find, based on his first two movies, that Jones doesn't really care whether or not the twists in his films are surprising. What he does care about is that he shows how his characters deal with the situations they find themselves in, and he does an excellent job of it at that. Sure being surprised is nice, but personally? I'll take the character development every time.

 

[McDuff]

From what I understand, each quantum leap was into the actual guy in the final 8 minutes of his life, but every time a different outcome was achieved it would create an alternate timeline, thus having no bearing on the one from which he was being sent out.

It's not what is happening here. There's no time travel involved. No alternate timelines.

A lot of people misunderstood the ending thus the movie. For example some people say the movie should stop at the freeze frame picture with everybody laughing and making most of their last moments. A nice artistic ending. But that ending wouldn't make any sense for the movie. Because those people laughing in the train, were not in their last seconds of their life, nor was Colter or his girlfriend. They were people living in an alternate universe who just got saved by Colter without realizing it.

As state here by the director:
http://blogs.indiewire.com/spout/archives/dark_ending_of_source_code/#

Our hero, Colter, through the use of the source code machine, travel between universes.

Alternate universes (and not timeline) in which only a few minutes separates events (and other small cosmetic differences between universes). That's why Colter notice there was always some small differences between the train in each jump to another universe. They were not exactly the same universe. They were alternate ones. But living about the same situation with only a few minutes separating them.

It also makes more sense of how the source code machine works. For example, it explains why traveling into another mind of a future dead man (shawn) make it possible to live and interact with that universe. Question easily answered at the end: They were real universes.

During the movie, Colter was persuaded that he really saved the girl at one time. When he asked her to get out of the train then stalked the guy with motion sickness problem. The crippled scientist denied it. But Colter believed it with all his heart. "I really saved her"

It turns out, obviously, that Colter was right. He did really saved the girl in that alternate universe with the motion sickness guy.

At the end, he did really transfer his consciousness in another body in an alternate universe. Save the life of everybody on the train. Then live with the girl happily ever after.

The last scene with the big shiny mirror monuments shows multiple reflections of the happy couple a recall to the idea of multiple universes.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I don't think anyone has disputed that the ending as you typed is what happened. Colter created an alternate timeline for himself where he saved the train, disabled the bomb and got to live (one assumes) happily ever after with Christina.

 

[McDuff]

I don't think anyone has disputed that the ending as you typed is what happened. Colter created an alternate timeline for himself where he saved the train, disabled the bomb and got to live (one assumes) happily ever after with Christina.

It's because you misunderstood me.

He didn't create an alternate timeline. He jumped (traveled) into another universe (already existing).

The crippled scientist pretended Colter was only sent into the body of an already dead man (in our universe). He was lying.

The crippled scientist wanted somehow to hide that fact. Because, we can say, that scientist only cared about our universe and his success. He didn't mind what happened in other universes. Even if other universes are as real as ours (and not the creation of his machine through some form of time traveling).

But Colter was convinced the different universes (trains) he visited were real not a fabrication of the source code machine. He was right.

For example, as I said more explicitly in the other post, stopping at that freeze frame pictures don't make any sense considering that those people were not about to live their last seconds in any way. Nor was Colter or his girlfriend. (EDIT: Colter could have been dead by giving back the body to Shawn consciousness after the 8 mins, but the girl military changed that by pushing stop on the machine where dead Colter was laying in. So I guess that ending could still be very possible when I think about it)

Also it explain why having someone like Colter jumping into the mind of another person (supposedly dead) can able him to interact with that "universe" the body was. And "know" more about it than the mind you jumped into (Shawn).

Shawn didn't know who the bomber was. So why jumping into the memory of shawn last 8 mins able you to interact with the whole universe that persons was at? The cripped scientist was lying. It's not what is happening here. Colter was sent into the body of a man in another universe in which very similar events (99.9% similar), at almost the same time, with the same criminal behind it, are about to happens. There's an obvious time constraint here, as shown in the movie. No alternate timeline was created at all. Althought some catastrophic events were averted in 2 alternate universes and the bomber was stopped from doing more damage into our universe.

 

[McDuff]

Yeah it's kinda sad that Sean had to be sacrificed for all this to happen, but frankly I don't think Colter himself has anything to feel guilty about.

Well, he has something to feel guilty about. He stole the body of another person, live inside it and he even stole the future girlfriend of that person. Now he probably even live in his apartments and help himself in the refrigerator.

In other words, he killed Sean, where he could simply have given Sean his body back after saving his life and those of others on the trains.

But he shouldn't feel guilty about it *ONLY* because it was not his intent. Colter didn't know, he was stealing Sean body for more than 8 mins. So when I think back, that movie could have ended with the freeze frame picture. Colter was just happy to die and save the girl for one last time and make more of his last seconds by kissing her and making people laugh.

But the military girl (Goodwin), by pushing the off button, somehow stopped the transfer back into Colter's comatose (brain attached) body. So now he's stuck in the alternate universe...with a girl, a body and an unsaid hero status.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ You're preaching to the choir here except I don't get what you're trying to say about the difference between an alternate universe and an alternate timeline? It's an alternate reality which has been stated before in this thread.

 

[McDuff]

^ You're preaching to the choir here except I don't get what you're trying to say about the difference between an alternate universe and an alternate timeline? It's an alternate reality which has been stated before in this thread.

It's just that alternate timeline in context of this movie seems to bring the idea of traveling back in the past to modify the future. Thus creating an alternate timeline to the one which already happened. Which is not the case in this movie. The crippled scientist was also lying about the time displacement thing. Anyway his explanation didn't make sense in the first place as I said above. It was part of the plot of the movie to know what really was happening to Colter and who was lying to him.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Of course he wasn't being honest (btw the "crippled scientist was named Dr. Rutledge not crippled scientist sigh) he was the antagonist in the movie. This was another change from the original script that I didn't like either. The "science" in the film is much more explicit in the film and explained.

 

[McDuff]

The "science" in the film is much more explicit in the film and explained.

I will never consider that a bad thing in any movie. It's science fiction not fantasy. Knowing what was really happening to Colter was one of the main mystery behind this movie.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I'm confused because you've decided to nitpick something....but did you enjoy the movie? LOL.

 

[McDuff]

I'm confused because you've decided to nitpick something....LOL.

It's not nitpick, it's a general discussion about the plot of the movie. Deciding if what was really happening, If it was time travel, time displacement or travel to parallel universes or whatever was a big part of the plot even if you don't recognize it.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ I'll repeat again...did you enjoy the movie? You've chosen to just talk about the nature of the Source Code. Who said I didn't recognize it? You were pointing this out to another poster before. I've agreed with you.