Completely unsubstantiated. There was plenty of action and not that much substance in TOS. You're just looking back with rose-tinted glasses.
He just lost his planet. I can tell you, he is emotionally compromised.
So, was it mysogyny that made the difference?
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Completely unsubstantiated. There was plenty of action and not that much substance in TOS. You're just looking back with rose-tinted glasses.
He just lost his planet. I can tell you, he is emotionally compromised.
Oh, so after I replied to what you said, and you don't like the reply, now you're trying to move away from it by accusing me of going off topic. L. O. L.
What you're doing right now seems dishonest, but if you really want to talk about sexism and Uhura in that scene, or in this movie in general, then I'm all for it. Something tells me that you don't, though.
I didn't twist anything. You're just upset. You don't know how or when I came to which or what conclusion. Please stick to what you can at least seem to know.
Oh, really?
Yeah, we're done here. -------------------------------------
(I'll be back later to reply to the couple of posts that seem to want to do more than be dismissive.)
Ok, Spock/Uhura Fan. Let's see if I can make my point clearer, here, if not to you, then to other readers.
First off, I'd like to remind you that YOU are the one who started the thread, with the word "mysogyny" in it, and that you are accusing the writers of STID of such.
Our exchange in this thread started about here:
This was in response to Lotucus' contention that you were blowing this out of proportions, and in order to argue that, even if the writers didn't do it intentionally, it could still be mysogyny. I disagreed, and asked you to prove that it was mysogyny in the first place. You said:
Who said anything about tradition ? I was asking you about this specific movie. You could simply have said it was your impression, and leave it at that. Then we get to this:
So let me get this straight. This female character beams down on her own to save her boyfriend's ass, capture the badguy and save her captain single-handedly, and you still think that the strength of her phaser is the issue ? That's why I said there's no satisfying you, implying that you are looking for a reason to be outraged. But then, inexplicably:
So I'm going to point out for a second time what you did there. You started a thread about sexism, something I asked you to prove, to which you answered some nonsense about statistics (not about this movie) and a willful ignorance of the character's badassery. And when I call you on that, you switch to the inconsistency of the phaser, as if that magically made your point.
Here's the thing: the inconsistency, even if you don't accept anybody's explanation, does not show that it was sexism involved in any way. You still need to prove that. That's why I said this:
I was trying to get you back on track. Silly me. That got me this:
So, I was addressing this very subject (sexism), but somehow, something tells you I don't talk about it ?
I think it's clear who the problem's with, here.
First off, I'd like to remind you that YOU are the one who started the thread, with the word "mysogyny" in it, and that you are accusing the writers of STID of such.
Our exchange in this thread started about here:
This was in response to Lotucus' contention that you were blowing this out of proportions, and in order to argue that, even if the writers didn't do it intentionally, it could still be mysogyny. I disagreed, and asked you to prove that it was mysogyny in the first place. You said:
Who said anything about tradition ? I was asking you about this specific movie. You could simply have said it was your impression, and leave it at that. Then we get to this:
Yeah, they made Uhura more badass, and you think it's sexist.
The way that it happened? Yep.
So let me get this straight. This female character beams down on her own to save her boyfriend's ass, capture the badguy and save her captain single-handedly, and you still think that the strength of her phaser is the issue ? That's why I said there's no satisfying you, implying that you are looking for a reason to be outraged. But then, inexplicably:
So I'm going to point out for a second time what you did there. You started a thread about sexism, something I asked you to prove, to which you answered some nonsense about statistics (not about this movie) and a willful ignorance of the character's badassery. And when I call you on that, you switch to the inconsistency of the phaser, as if that magically made your point.
Here's the thing: the inconsistency, even if you don't accept anybody's explanation, does not show that it was sexism involved in any way. You still need to prove that. That's why I said this:
I was trying to get you back on track. Silly me. That got me this:
So, I was addressing this very subject (sexism), but somehow, something tells you I don't talk about it ?
I think it's clear who the problem's with, here.
"Who said anything about tradition ? I was asking you about this specific movie. You could simply have said it was your impression, and leave it at that. Then we get to this:"
Right, as if movies are written and made in a vacuum. This is why I'm not indulging this. How sad.
Right, as if movies are written and made in a vacuum. This is why I'm not indulging this. How sad.
You know I don't see how one could argue Uhura got the shaft in this film seeing as after the negotiations fall apart she just grabs the Klingon commander's knife and stabs him with it (possibly in the nads 
) before he knows what happens.
No wonder Kirk and Spock don't want to piss her off, and the crew lets her deal with pissed off Spock and Khan.
) before he knows what happens.No wonder Kirk and Spock don't want to piss her off, and the crew lets her deal with pissed off Spock and Khan.
I really think we'd better get back to addressing the topic of Uhura, what happens in that particular scene, and whether sexism or misogyny might have been involved in the writing, and steer well away from the more personal "See what you're doing now?" and "Something tells me you don't" and "Sorry, I don't know what universe you guys are from" sort of fencing I'm seeing crop up here more and more. If the latter continues...
Oh, so after I replied to what you said, and you don't like the reply, now you're trying to move away from it by accusing me of going off topic. L. O. L.
What you're doing right now seems dishonest, but if you really want to talk about sexism and Uhura in that scene, or in this movie in general, then I'm all for it. Something tells me that you don't, though.
...then yeah, we'll be done here.I didn't twist anything. You're just upset. You don't know how or when I came to which or what conclusion. Please stick to what you can at least seem to know.
Oh, really?
Good idea - let's all stick, henceforth, to things which are substantially about the topic.
[/quote]I really think we'd better get back to addressing the topic of Uhura, what happens in that particular scene, and whether sexism or misogyny might have been involved in the writing, and steer well away from the more personal "See what you're doing now?" and "Something tells me you don't" and "Sorry, I don't know what universe you guys are from" sort of fencing I'm seeing crop up here more and more. If the latter continues...
Oh, so after I replied to what you said, and you don't like the reply, now you're trying to move away from it by accusing me of going off topic. L. O. L.
What you're doing right now seems dishonest, but if you really want to talk about sexism and Uhura in that scene, or in this movie in general, then I'm all for it. Something tells me that you don't, though.
Interesting because that didn't start with me, but I don't see you saying anything to Belz who did start it. You could have said this when it first cropped up with him. That's alright, though.
...then yeah, we'll be done here.I didn't twist anything. You're just upset. You don't know how or when I came to which or what conclusion. Please stick to what you can at least seem to know.
Oh, really?Good idea - let's all stick, henceforth, to things which are substantially about the topic.
Yes, and please apply that to everyone.
Uhura's one of the best characters in the new Trek movies - she makes a better third lead for present purposes than McCoy would - and I hope that the producers continue to develop her in the directions they have with STID. They're on the right track.
What you're asking is that I be the scorekeeper, making sure that no one person can get too far ahead on jabs (and especially not that guy.) Uh-uh - that's not happening. If I have to keep breaking up childish squabbles, I'm closing the playground.
What I'm asking is that each person participating take responsibility for their own actions—you know: the way adults do—and to police themselves, if and as may be appropriate. I may speak up, if I see someone not doing as well at self-policing as they might, and then observe to see whether things improve.
It is not my job, however, to hand-hold everyone and allow them to pretend they're conducting themselves like grown-ups. That's on all of you. I'm just here to put in a reminder where I think it may be helpful.
No, I'm not asking for that. Like I told Belz, this is not a game. And eventually, before you showed up, I already said I wasn't interested in continuing a discussion with him because I saw no fruitful point in it.
Also, I never saw this thread as a "playground," but if you want to close it, then that will be fine by me because very few people seemed to show up for an actual discussion on the topic from my view.
Then I would ask that you actually ask everyone to take responsibility for their own actions and not seemingly look like you are taking sides if that's not how you want to look. You didn't need to quote anything I said in order to make your point clear.
And again. I did do self-policing. I was already done with the back-and-forth with Belz by the time you posted.
It's not your job, nor should it be. Luckily, I don't think that's what was required, just an even post. If you want to put up a reminder, then you can do that without the appearance of taking sides as a moderator.
(And if this thread is still open, I will get around to responding to the people that had something to say about the topic that would be worth it for me to discuss, otherwise, I'll be happy to PM them.)
Are you for real? This is the level at which you argue your case? I could blow this out the water but I now realise you aren't actually interested in your misuse of the misspelt word in your thread title.
So, realise and misspelt, orthographobia?
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This. When it happened in the theater, I thought to myself, "that magnificent bastard's playing possum." The camera even gave the visual cue by focusing on him longer than necessary, to where you can see his eye open just a tiny bit, letting everyone know he's down but not out.
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