• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

So, was it mysogyny that made the difference?

Status
Not open for further replies.
The way that it happened? Yep.

There is just no satisfying some women, then. No matter how heroic the female character, we'll always get complaints of sexism.

Maybe movies should only have women characters, then. Problem solved. :rolleyes:

They may not have intended to be that way with how they constructed things, but it's looking more and more that way.

Because your are reinterpreting everything to fit your conclusion.

And the statistics are the statistics for a reason. I hope you understand that.

Statistics can't tell you the truth value of a statement for a single data point. Only the probability.
 
No, it's not.

That word, "mysogyny," does not mean what you think it means.

Well quite. I've read this whole thread and that's the conclusion I came too as well. If the writers had Uhura knocked supine and screaming winsomely or serving drinks to the other officers or, y'know, given three words to say in the entire movie then I might think you had a point. Instead we see a courageous (I'll go and talk to the scary Klingons), professional (I'm the only one who can speak Klingon), intelligent (let's not kill him guys), bold, sassy member of the crew.


Since when was the mere ability to do something a qualifier for being "professional"? Capable, yes, but I won't argue with you on this point because I do see the character this way. I'm just saying that being able to speak a language does not automatically make anyone professional. Trust me.

The character should be intelligent. I would have liked to have seen her ask McCoy why he couldn't use one of the other people in stasis. That would have at least allowed for some explanation as to why it just had to be Khan. To me, that or simply having someone beam Khan to the brig while he's trying to kill her boyfriend would have been more intelligent than beaming yourself into the middle of a fight.

If you're hired as an interpreter, speaking forn languages is your profession. Trust me.

Why is it only Uhura who could have asked that question? Is it because it then gives you an opportunity to say she and she alone was made to look stupid for not asking it?

You know that beaming opportunities, like shields and warp speeds vary according to the plot, so that one doesn't hold up either.
 
They couldn't beam them up because they were moving too fast. That's why they beamed her down in the first place. And yes would have worked better if there was some reason, any reason why it had to be her beamed to that moving platform. A reason they were not able to beam down a security guy.

why couldn't Spock send down some security guys too? He was the acting captain in that moment and he abandoned the ship. Same for the first movie when he went looking for his parents in the imploding planet of vulcan because he wanted to save them.
A personal reason - she's his girlfriend so she won't let others do the job that she can do- would be, alone, a legit reason for her to go and nothing new in terms of how these characters act.
Kirk went after Harrison personally because he killed Pike. Technically he didn't have to go he could've send an away team of security officers only and never have to leave the captain's chair to Sulu. That he took Uhura with them makes sense as she was the one who spoke klingon but Spock for example was replaceable, what he could do aside from telling him that the statistical likelihood of the villain trying to kill them was around 90%? ^

Another reason, though, for her to go could be that they needed someone who could be able to stop Spock before he killed Khan and he'd probably listen to her a tiny bit more.



Okay, so she was courageous to be willing to "talk" to Klingons, and of course things went south. My issue is that that "talk" didn't do anything. If you're satisfied with it, okay, but I can't be.

why the plan had to work for the scene to be important and relevant for her character?
The scene's purpose is to show her competence and that she is so brave and courageous to be willing to risk her own life just to give to them all a chance to survive well knowing that she could fail and that really the chance that the klingons would listen to her were very little. But she TRIED well knowing the risk.
Even if she just made them gain some time it's still something.

The scene also showed that while S/U are in love and have a relationship (something touched on in a previous scene) this doesn't affect their job. Kirk doesn't want Uhura to go outside and he wants to stop her but Spock recognizes the logic in her plan and the fact they don't have other options and he believes in her and her ability to handle the situation on her own.
Then later when they're in the middle of the fight you don't see them going after their boyfriend/girlfriend uncaring of other officers that could be in danger in that moment. When Kirk is down and maybe injured their priority is to help their captain and they drag him out of the line of fire.
 
Since when does everything have to spelled out to the audience such that no thinking on their part is required? Things seem to travel too fast? Maybe they simply edited out the boring bits of watching the stars go by. All the torpedos should have vaporized the ship but didn't? Perhaps only one or a few were actually armed. Khan seems variously vulnerable to phaser fire? Probably faking his reaction the first time around.

While not every single event portrayed in the film (or any film, for that matter) can be logically rationalized, is it really too much to expect a viewer to take the time to ponder what might be the most likely reason for a particular outcome that isn't spelled out in such an explicit fashion so as to render thinking for one's self utterly meaningless?

Note the use of the word "likely", though. It is a critical element in the exercise. Otherwise, rather obtuse rationalizations might emerge that withstand very little scrutiny (and are thus rendered "unlikely").

I don't think anyone that has criticisms about this film has argued against "thinking," rather just for intelligent film-making. Please note the word "intelligent," because this film was not.

Plenty of people have made complaints that could easily be resolved by the application of thinking, though. It has nothing to do with the overall "intelligence" of the movie. As for whether the movie is "intelligent"--in absolute terms it doesn't particularly stand out as such. However, it is a damned sight more coherent than a lot of the criticisms lobbed in its direction.
 
@Admiral Buzzkill, I understand what misogyny means.

Then stop misusing the word.

You really believe that the writers assigned variable strength to hand phasers on the basis of whether one was being used by a girl or a boy? Sheesh. :rolleyes:

Spock rather than Uhura was going to ultimately subdue Khan because Spock is a far more important character in Star Trek, and this was the climax of the movie.
 
Spock rather than Uhura was going to ultimately subdue Khan because Spock is a far more important character in Star Trek, and this was the climax of the movie.

Nevertheless, Spock looked VERY dorky running down the street and fist-fighting Khan.

The Vulcan neck-pinch was invented because they thought Vulcans would look "wrong" partaking in an old-fashioned testosterone-fueled brawl, and this movie confirms that they DO look wrong, even though the pinch doesn't work on Khan.

The least they could have done is invented some form of Vulcan martial arts, something a bit more dignified than just bashing Khan crudely.
 
[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epl8KAqukqw[/YT]
Not getting dorky from this.

Come on. Spock's upper-body posture is straight up-down. Very dorky. It's not an "action" gait at all. And just the image of SPOCK, icon of geekdom, ears, costume, and all, is the visual epitome of dorkiness. It totally looks like a nerd trying to chase down someone who stole his action figures outside of a Trek convention in San Francisco. It's like a gag from Big Bang theory.
 
He runs like a Vulcan. He's not supposed to look like a human, you know. He's only half human.
 
[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epl8KAqukqw[/YT]
Not getting dorky from this.

Come on. Spock's upper-body posture is straight up-down. Very dorky. It's not an "action" gait at all. And just the image of SPOCK, icon of geekdom, ears, costume, and all, is the visual epitome of dorkiness. It totally looks like a nerd trying to chase down someone who stole his action figures outside of a Trek convention in San Francisco. It's like a gag from Big Bang theory.

No. It really, really isn't. And what the hell is an "action gait", anyway? There are plenty of legitimate criticisms to make of the film but no, let's just invent something absurd instead. Sheesh. :rolleyes:
 
How does one have to run to not look like a nerd nowadays ? With his hands in his pockets ?
 
Come on. Spock's upper-body posture is straight up-down. Very dorky. It's not an "action" gait at all. And just the image of SPOCK, icon of geekdom, ears, costume, and all, is the visual epitome of dorkiness. It totally looks like a nerd trying to chase down someone who stole his action figures outside of a Trek convention in San Francisco. It's like a gag from Big Bang theory.


You must have never watched world-classed sprinters. Once out of the blocks, they run straight up and down. Zach and Ben must have done a lot of training to run like that. It was actually impressive.

~FS
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top