Snoke - speculation (spoilers)

[USS Triumphant]

When has the even sillier notion of the Sith being an entire race been shown in the movies? Is there a Jedi race, too? Because that's just as silly.

Is it? I would think it would be a given that at some point, way back, there would a single species that originated the Sith teachings and another (or maybe the same one) that originated the Jedi order. Perhaps their whole species aren't actually called "Sith" or "Jedi" - maybe those are just names from their languages - but still: had to come from somewhere.

 

[Kor]

As I recall, in the defunct Expanded Universe, the "Sith" were originally not a whole race of powerful Dark Side users.

They were a primitive people who came to be ruled by a dark jedi or somesuch from off-world. Eventually, there wasn't much left of the actual Sith species/civilization, but the rulers still called themselves "Dark Lords of the Sith."

Kor

 

[USS Triumphant]

Snoooooke....and the First Order...
sent fire from the sky...
Snoooooke....and the First Order!
Dum dum dum... dumdum da dum... dum dum dum - dumdum

 

[DWF]

Well, obviously they don't really obey the rule, they aim to betray either each other, if there are many, or their master eventually. It's in their nature. Dooku trained Ventress while being Palpatine's aprentice, Vader wanted to take Luke under his wing to betray the emperor. Still, if Snoke isn't Plagueis I think the Sith are done and these guys are wannabes (hello, Ren!) or something else all together.

Dooku also trained Grevious that doesn't make him a Sith though. Palpatine seemingly killed his master and Vader was certainly planning on killing Palpatine. Having only two means they can keep a better eye on each other.

 

[Beagleman]

Well, obviously they don't really obey the rule, they aim to betray either each other, if there are many, or their master eventually. It's in their nature. Dooku trained Ventress while being Palpatine's aprentice, Vader wanted to take Luke under his wing to betray the emperor. Still, if Snoke isn't Plagueis I think the Sith are done and these guys are wannabes (hello, Ren!) or something else all together.

Dooku also trained Grevious that doesn't make him a Sith though. Palpatine seemingly killed his master and Vader was certainly planning on killing Palpatine. Having only two means they can keep a better eye on each other.

Ok, pherhaps my memory is fuzzy here but didn't he lure Ventress in with the promise of her becoming a Sith once Palps is dealt with? A promise he wouldn't be able to make to no-force Grevious? I just think both of the Two are always trying to keep another card hidden up their sleeves. (Or more )

 

[DWF]

Well, obviously they don't really obey the rule, they aim to betray either each other, if there are many, or their master eventually. It's in their nature. Dooku trained Ventress while being Palpatine's aprentice, Vader wanted to take Luke under his wing to betray the emperor. Still, if Snoke isn't Plagueis I think the Sith are done and these guys are wannabes (hello, Ren!) or something else all together.

Dooku also trained Grevious that doesn't make him a Sith though. Palpatine seemingly killed his master and Vader was certainly planning on killing Palpatine. Having only two means they can keep a better eye on each other.

Ok, pherhaps my memory is fuzzy here but didn't he lure Ventress in with the promise of her becoming a Sith once Palps is dealt with? A promise he wouldn't be able to make to no-force Grevious? I just think both of the Two are always trying to keep another card hidden up their sleeves. (Or more )

I don't know but in the end they'd still have to deal with Palpatine. But then Vader told Luke they could rule the galaxy as father and son, which would mean taking care of Palpatine. S the rule of two woud still apply.

 

[RoJoHen]

Well, obviously they don't really obey the rule, they aim to betray either each other, if there are many, or their master eventually. It's in their nature. Dooku trained Ventress while being Palpatine's aprentice, Vader wanted to take Luke under his wing to betray the emperor. Still, if Snoke isn't Plagueis I think the Sith are done and these guys are wannabes (hello, Ren!) or something else all together.

Dooku also trained Grevious that doesn't make him a Sith though. Palpatine seemingly killed his master and Vader was certainly planning on killing Palpatine. Having only two means they can keep a better eye on each other.

Ok, pherhaps my memory is fuzzy here but didn't he lure Ventress in with the promise of her becoming a Sith once Palps is dealt with?

And Palpatine knew this, which is why he eventually ordered Dooku to get rid of her.

 

[Ithekro]

Palpatine repeated that there can be only Two Sith Lords. Both to Dooku when ordering him to get rid of Ventress, and to Darth Maul, when denouncing him as a Sith Lord (having failed and been replaced by Dooku since Naboo).

Yoda also knows of the Rule of Two as he acknowledged that Darth Bane created it during Yoda's voyage of discovery in the Force.

 

[Set Harth]

We already knew he knew of it from TPM.

 

[The Wormhole]

I'd find it more interesting if Snoke was NOT a Sith. He's just manipulating Force users into joining the Dark Side.

This is my theory as well. Sorta like the opposite of Maz. They know a lot about the Force and can sense it around them, but are not Jedi/Sith.

In addition to this, I like the idea going around that Snoke is the same species as Maz. Which has me wondering, if indeed they are the same species, could they be the Whills?

 

[Kor]

But if Snoke only has knowledge of "The Force" but can't actually use it, how would he maintain any kind of control over people who are powerful in the Dark Side?

Kor

 

[RoJoHen]

But if Snoke only has knowledge of "The Force" but can't actually use it, how would he maintain any kind of control over people who are powerful in the Dark Side?

Kor

It's not like all Dark Side users feel the need to go on a murderous rampage. They may simply respect/fear him as a leader. Maybe he befriended them first, much like Palpatine did with Anakin. Palpatine's rise to power had almost nothing to do with the Force; he was just incredibly cunning and manipulative.

We still don't know the circumstances of how Snoke and Kylo actually met. We don't know anything about him, really.

 

[Set Harth]

If Snoke can't use the Force, the next thing you get is:

1) Dead Snoke.
2) Supreme Leader Kylo Ren.

 

[ancient]

If Snoke can't use the Force, the next thing you get is:

1) Dead Snoke.
2) Supreme Leader Kylo Ren.

The 'final boss' is going to be a strong force user, and that's going to be Snoke. Movie drama demands it.

 

[RoJoHen]

If Snoke can't use the Force, the next thing you get is:

1) Dead Snoke.
2) Supreme Leader Kylo Ren.

The 'final boss' is going to be a strong force user, and that's going to be Snoke. Movie drama demands it.

I don't know. Just based on what we've seen, I feel like the final battle could easily be between Rey and Kylo Ren.

It depends on whether or not Kylo's story is one of redemption. Frankly, we just watched the dude murder his father. I'd like to see him become the ultimate villain and then subsequently get his ass stomped.

 

[137th Gebirg]

To be fair, who would have policed the policy either way? If there's only two, they're the only two who could. And if it was just down to one, who'd tell him no? Is there a secret council of Sith Who Aren't Sith But Policy All the Silly Policies They Apparently Have?

Maybe THE SITH? Perhaps they're a species that stays on their own world, and only allows their secret sorcerous knowledge of the dark side of the Force to be known by two outsiders at any given time - a Master, and his Apprentice. And if they find out that anyone else is practicing their arts, they will come out just long enough to hunt them down and eliminate them.

I mean, that goes completely against what we knew from the EU, but since that's all out the window, why not?

Actually, it is a part of the EU that the ancient race of the Sith does (or did) exist, which is why the "rule of two" was a patently stupid rule to begin with. How could Sith Lords become so powerful that the hundreds, possibly thousands of Jedi would fear them so?

 

[Arrrrgggh]

There was something like 10,000 when Palpatine started playing his games, wasn't there?

 

[Mr Light]

There's a fundamental difference between the original Sith species and the Sith Order.

 

[Ithekro]

A thousand years of plotting and planning of the Sith to retake the galaxy and exterminate the Jedi using the Jedi's flaws against themselves.

The Jedi were gunned down by loyal troops with no hate in their minds. Just following orders. The Jedi were caught unaware in most cases. A Jedi can sense danger by intent, but the clones programming made it so there was no danger until it was too late.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I agree, within the context of the prequels. I'm thinking more in terms of before that, in historical encounters between the two orders.

For the Sith to be such an effective adversarial force that could go toe to toe with the Jedi (again, prior to the events of the prequel trilogy) there would necessarily need to be more of them than just two at a time.

Despite the literal meaning of the rule of two, I liken it to more of a Jedi euphemism alalogous to "where there's smoke there's fire", in that they always travel in pairs, a master and apprentice, with the "rule" to serve as a cautionary warning, that if any Jedi spots a Sith, there's always another nearby. That leaves the door open to more than only two ever operating at once in the entire galaxy.