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News Adam Driver tried to bring back Kylo Ren with the help of Steven Soderbergh

  • Thread starter The Nightmare Doctor
  • Start date
I may not like it, but I guess if Ventress can come back, anyone can come back. :ouch:

Or Darth Maul. :D ("Solo" had quite the development hell, but taking down some of the sophomoric humor late in the day while bringing in Maul as one hell of a hook could have gone somewhere. Maul was easily one of the best things about the 1997 prequel.)
 
Thank God for Disney nixing this idea. The last thing I want is Kylo Whine in another Star Wars production.

The sequel trilogy was a mixed bag. The new character archetypes were not uninteresting. Taking too many plot beats from the original trilogy was the first sign of things not being perfect. Not having a consistent plan for the three sequel movies was another, and "The Last Jedi" wasn't a total mistake either. TRoS was too busy wasting time in course correction and also did what should have been done for TFA in having death star technology now in star destroyers as the audience was already there and didn't need a spoonfed rehash but with super new abilities that Leia and Luke and Vader and Obi and the Professor and Mary Ann and the rest would easily have had (and would have come in handy with!).

Long story short after telling the long stuff as tangent, Kylo never had too much chance to get refined development and there are some scenes where he feels like an unpredictable menace - which I think was the intent behind his unexpected emotional reactions. There's a robust idea in that, and the sequel trilogy nailed the iconic look and tone of Star Wars in the way the prequels hadn't. The trilogy just didn't know how to really embrace and use the characters to the fullest extent, and scriptwriting isn't the easiest of things to do either... the fact TFA at least gave the characters something interesting was pretty huge.


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(Adam Driver nails the menace wonderfully in this scene. But that mask...)


Never mind that mask, which isn't a patch on Vader's disco original, didn't need to wear one either to make the character work, and didn't need to make a return for TRoS either. Looked like they nicked it from the Muppet Star Wars episode where Gonzo the Great wore it and he would be Vader's Muppet stand-in, natch...

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(Really, that nose is nothing to sneeze at.)
 
You blindly reach your hand into that bag and pull something out. You could get the red room, or you could get "What's your story, roundy?"
 
Turns out Soderbergh is still disappointed about not making this film. From Brooklyn Magazine:

Last year, you finished drafts of Sotweed Factor, The Other Hamilton, Ascenso, and Bloodworth Manor. When did you change your mind about your idea that you are “not a writer”? Because it seems like you’re now doing a lot of writing.​
​
Yeah, but I’m still not a writer. Having written doesn’t make you a writer anymore than having directed makes you a director. So, by my standards, I’m not a writer. I wrote to get in, and in this case, I was writing to get back in, because I thought the next two years of my life were going to be spent making a Star Wars movie. And so, in the immediate aftermath of that, my response was, “You better start getting some shit generated so you can go back to work.”​
​
I’ve been reading things, but my gut reaction when that went south was you can’t wait for things to come to you. You need to make some things happen. So I just sat down and wrote one thing after another. I got in that zone of generating material to make something happen. I’ve picked one of those to pursue. I don’t want to jinx it yet because it’s not set up. But the purpose was to essentially get in a time machine and pretend this is pre-1989. I’m starting over again. Back then, I would just write one thing after another, hoping that something would stick, and it turned out to be Sex Lies. And I’m kind of doing the same thing again.​
​
Since you brought up Star Wars, I was reading the Kathleen Kennedy exit interview again before we got on the call. I think what surprised a lot of people from the outside was that it appears it was basically a green light, and then essentially the head of Disney kills it for “story reasons,” which has never stopped them from doing anything in the Star Wars universe. And I was wondering if that elucidated anything for you? Did you know how disappointed she was? ​
​
No, it was no surprise that she was frustrated. We were all frustrated. You know, that was two and a half years of free work for me and Adam and Rebecca Blunt. When Adam and I discussed him talking about it publicly, I said, “Look, do not editorialize or speculate about the why. Just say what happened, because all we know is what happened.” The stated reason was “We don’t think Ben Solo could be alive.” And that was all we were told. And so there’s nothing to do about it, you know, except move on.​
​
And as I posted, I’d kind of made the movie in my head, and just felt bad that nobody else was going to get to see it. I thought the conversation was strictly going to be a practical one—where they go, what is this going to cost? And I had a really good answer for that. But it never even got to that point. It’s insane. We’re all very disappointed.​
 
Wonder what the real reason was.
I suspect it was that they didn't think Ben Solo could be alive.

Despite the fact that his conspicuous lack of appearing as a Force ghost at the end of TROS sort of leaves the door open.
 
^ Well, you must remember that this was the long-ago time known to scholars as the "Biden Years." Back then, many believed that Americans didn't want to see redemption stories for fascist mass murderers. It was a more... civilized age. :rommie:
 
^ Oh, sorry for noticing a character that spent about 95% of his screen time as a fascist murderer is... still guilty of having been a fascist murderer, even if he admits he made a whoopsie and got a kiss from a pretty young woman? And wondering what the implications of thoroughly rehabilitating such a character might be? That's, uh, my bad, I guess?? :rommie:


Relevant:

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(Hey, anyone else remember when seeing a parade of fascist, armed soldiers marching through an American city like Anaheim or Orlando might have seemed fantastical? At Disney Parks, it's been fun for the whole family for years! Nothing like teaching kids to obey and admire authoritarianism when they're nice and young! :p)
 
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^ Well, you must remember that this was the long-ago time known to scholars as the "Biden Years." Back then, many believed that Americans didn't want to see redemption stories for fascist mass murderers. It was a more... civilized age. :rommie:
So you haven't seen Return of the Jedi? That explains a lot.
 
, sorry for noticing a character that spent about 95% of his screen time as a fascist murderer is... still guilty of having been a fascist murderer, even if he admits he made a whoopsie and got a kiss from a pretty young woman? And wondering what the implications of thoroughly rehabilitating such a character might be? That's, uh, my bad, I guess?? :rommie:
Sooo...Vader could not be redeemed and shouldn't ever be? Just death?


Asking for a fan fiction writing friend.
 
Sooo...Vader could not be redeemed and shouldn't ever be? Just death?


Asking for a fan fiction writing friend.
Honestly, if it hadn’t been (a) intended to be the grand finale to the entire saga at the time, and (b) turned into so very much a father/son reconciliation story, I would agree that no, he shouldn’t. I give it a pass for the above reasons, and because the resulting scene is so massively emotionally satisfying in the moment.

That’s a trick that works once. I have to agree that Ben Solo very much did not deserve and should not have gotten the redemption he did at the end of the ST, and for the same reason, a Ben Solo Returns movie is a terrible idea. I don’t want to see the adventures of the guy who murdered trillions and, whatever slight incitements, basically went to the Dark Side because he felt like it (and returned for ultimately the same reason) either.
 
I have to agree that Ben Solo very much did not deserve and should not have gotten the redemption he did at the end of the ST, and for the same reason, a Ben Solo Returns movie is a terrible idea. I don’t want to see the adventures of the guy who murdered trillions and, whatever slight incitements, basically went to the Dark Side because he felt like it (and returned for ultimately the same reason) either.
Nobody deserves it. That's not even relevant. This isn't a universe where people are assured to get what they deserve.
 
Nobody deserves it. That's not even relevant. This isn't a universe where people are assured to get what they deserve.
With respect, that’s not relevant. This is a saga (not universe) that errs on the side of “ultimately, after much struggle and sacrifice, good wins in the very long run”. Supernumeraries get random fates, but in high fantasy tradition, the major characters get narratively appropriate fates, good or bad.
 
This is a saga (not universe) that errs on the side of “ultimately, after much struggle and sacrifice, good wins in the very long run”.
And (1) that's exactly what you got, and (2) that has nothing to do with fist-shaking at so-called "redemption". Good wins on the battlefield, deserve is still not a thing for individuals. And still nothing explains the double standard applied to Vader and Kylo.
 
Sooo...Vader could not be redeemed and shouldn't ever be? Just death?

Asking for a fan fiction writing friend.

Anakin/Vader was a mass murderer. It's nice that he ultimately turned against Palpatine, but if he'd survived the Battle of Endor, he should have spent the rest of his life in a maximum security prison, with no possibility of parole, maybe being allowed to knit sweaters for poor children to pass the time while he waits for death. Either that, or he gets to die as a result of fighting an even worse Sith, yeah.

And yes, same goes, obviously, for Ben Solo. If he were to be brought back to life, he should spend the rest of his life in the same sort of prison. (Unless, maybe, he found a way to use the World Between Worlds to go back in time and prevent himself from falling to the Dark Side and murdering anyone in the first place, thereby heroically erasing the whole Sequel Trilogy in the process. But, I doubt that's the story Kennedy gave a verbal thumbs-up to. :rommie:)
 
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