Should they bring back Janeway?

[Elias Vaughn]

Are the viewer numbers all unique? I always thought the thread views count goes up every time anyone looks at it, even the same person more than once.

49 people viewing a thread maybe 20 times a piece might do it.

 

[ronny]

^There are options to keep them secret.

And I learned the hard way that many people seem to hesitate to vote at all when the identities are public. I used the "public" option in my last IDW comics poll, and it had hundreds and hundreds of lookers and yet only a handful of voters - even weeks later.

At closing: 49 voters and 1,228 lookers.

I suppose 49 isn't too bad, but it took a long time to get there.

I don't believe you're cause and effect reasoning for the lack of votes in your poll at all. I viewed that thread a few times but didn't vote because I wasn't interested enough, not because I was afraid someone was going to see how I voted.

Most people are pretty vocal on their feelings on whether Janeway should come back or not in the threads so I don't see them being afraid to vote in the poll because people will see how they voted.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I don't believe you're cause and effect reasoning for the lack of votes in your poll at all.

I don't have any cause and effect reasoning. I only know that my poll just sat there, with few respondents, for a long time. Whereas, a year or so ago, a similar poll using the old format seemed to garner lots of interest and votes right from Day 1.

 

[joyofvgr]

let's break down simply:

131 people want Janeway back.

the novels where Janeway's dead have sold several thousand copies.

who do you think Pocket are going to pay more attention to? 131 screaming fans on the net who aren't buying jack or several thousand people putting money in their coffers?

Many of the people that bought those novels feel that Janeway's return is inevitable because she went off with the Lady Q though. I wonder how some of those people would feel if Janeway did in fact remain dead.

I can't tell you how many people I've had discussions with that think this is a moot point because "Janeway isn't really dead."

In fact, if you read the reviews on Amazon, many say they loved Full Cirlce, but expect Janeway to return in the future.

 

[JarodRussell]

let's break down simply:

131 people want Janeway back.

the novels where Janeway's dead have sold several thousand copies.

who do you think Pocket are going to pay more attention to? 131 screaming fans on the net who aren't buying jack or several thousand people putting money in their coffers?

When they do a survey on "what candidate would you vote for?", they ask only 1000 people (out of 40 to 300 millions, depending on which country you're from) and then do something they call projection and call the survey representative.

So asking 230 people out of some thousand readers isn't bad. And if 130 of them vote yes...

 

[captcalhoun]

yes, but those 135 people who've voted they want her back are not buying the books.

that's like asking 135 kids who they'd vote for: completely irrelevant.

 

[JarodRussell]

yes, but those 135 people who've voted they want her back are not buying the books.

that's like asking 135 kids who they'd vote for: completely irrelevant.

I agree with that, but that's a different thing. What you did before was kind of questioning the principle of surveys in general.

On the other hand, those 135 people are representatives of a larger group that would be potentially buying the books if they got what they wanted.

 

[Smiley]

The potential for the group that the 135+ people represent to buy the books is a slim one, based on what has been posted in this thread. Several of the posters have stated that they have not been buyers of the books before Before Dishonor was published. Why would that change if Janeway is resurrected and possibly takes Afsarah's position away from her?

Also, "what they want" is pretty hard to nail down. It's obviously not just having Janeway alive again. If it were, then the Voyager novels would have been much more successful in the first place, and the editors would not have asked for her to be written out in the way she was.

I'm curious if the Janeway fans who have posted here would buy a novel or series like The Return, which brings Janeway back in command of Voyager but is ignored or contradicted by every other Trek novel in the line.

 

[Therin of Andor]

When they do a survey on "what candidate would you vote for?", they ask only 1000 people (out of 40 to 300 millions, depending on which country you're from) and then do something they call projection and call the survey representative.

Only when the original pool of 1000 had been established as a statistically representative sample.

So asking 230 people out of some thousand readers isn't bad. And if 130 of them vote yes...

The Janeway survey is being answered by regulars and drive-by visitors to a thread on the Internet that discusses licensed ST fiction. Not a statistically representative sample of anyone. There's no way to police lobbying for votes from either side of the debate. The results of any TrekBBS survey are only a curiosity, and/or a discussion starter, at best.

 

[Technobuilder]

yes, but those 135 people who've voted they want her back are not buying the books.

that's like asking 135 kids who they'd vote for: completely irrelevant.

^I think you just summarized Nickelodeon's Kid's Choice Awards quite nicely.

 

[Therin of Andor]

^I think you just summarized Nickelodeon's Kid's Choice Awards quite nicely.

Where's the bucket of Odo?

 

[AuntKate]

The potential for the group that the 135+ people represent to buy the books is a slim one, based on what has been posted in this thread. Several of the posters have stated that they have not been buyers of the books before Before Dishonor was published. Why would that change if Janeway is resurrected and possibly takes Afsarah's position away from her?

To think that this board is representative of the reading public, even the Trek reading public, is pretty hard to prove or defend. This Board is pretty hard core Trek, and this Forum even moreso. Plus, this Board has traditionally been less than friendly to Janeway or Voyager fans, so having that many votes for her return is even more significant IMHO.

Also, "what they want" is pretty hard to nail down. It's obviously not just having Janeway alive again. If it were, then the Voyager novels would have been much more successful in the first place, and the editors would not have asked for her to be written out in the way she was.

I don't know that the previous novels sold all that poorly, but if they did, it might be because of the quality of writing or of the plot, don't you think? I don't think having Janeway on the bridge was the reason.

"What they want" is not clear because the fans just want her back and included in the crew. I don't think anyone has really said she has to come back in a certain way. And, I believe she was "written out" the way she was on purpose--to create the very flurry of interest that has occured here and elsewhere.

I'm curious if the Janeway fans who have posted here would buy a novel or series like The Return, which brings Janeway back in command of Voyager but is ignored or contradicted by every other Trek novel in the line.

You bet I would, in a heartbeat. I am not heavily invested in the TNG/DS9 relaunch. I'd love to see her come back in a stand-alone series. However, I don't see why that can't be Breyer's novels, since Voyager and her "fleet" are out in the DQ and away from what is happening in the Federation.

 

[Smiley]

AuntKate, I can only discuss points that are made here. I understand that this forum does not represent the ST readership as a whole. My point that those who have not purchased Trek or VOY books previously are unlikely to do so in the future is aimed at a specific type of behavior pattern mentioned in this thread and answers JarodRussell's post.

Let's assume for a minute that Janeway is restored in a well-written book. Is that really all the MJFs, for lack of a better, more concise term, want? That is not the impression I have received from this or other threads on the subject, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

Here's another question for the fans who want Janeway back. What did you think of Fusion? It came out before the death story, was written by Kirsten Beyer, and has quite a nice role for Janeway. It is well-respected by most of the posters here, myself included. If something like that were written as a post-Janeway restoration novel, would you like it? More importantly, would you purchase it?

 

[Steve Roby]

Plus, this Board has traditionally been less than friendly to Janeway or Voyager fans

Only if you define "Janeway or Voyager fans" as single-issue drive-by posters who don't read the books but want to complain about one decision made in them, and aren't interested in engaging honestly with the people here.

Otherwise, bullshit.

 

[kimc]

Plus, this Board has traditionally been less than friendly to Janeway or Voyager fans

Only if you define "Janeway or Voyager fans" as single-issue drive-by posters who don't read the books but want to complain about one decision made in them, and aren't interested in engaging honestly with the people here.

Otherwise, bullshit.

I think they would be interested in engaging honestly with people here but quite frankly they don't feel welcome.

 

[elaithin]

Again, that's only if you assume that all Voyager fans are somehow independent of other Star Trek fans, or that all Voyager fans dislike her death. That is not neccesarrily the case.

I consider myself a fan of both, and I'm perfectly fine with what happened to her. Voyager's far from my favorite series - it actually ranks even with Enterprise for last - but I've still seen every episode. There's still things I like, like Janeway's coffee obsession, or Captain Proton, or any number of things. The Doctor is in my top five characters in all of Star Trek. I think the show did a wonderful job of fleshing out alien cultures, even so far from the Alpha Quadrant. As weird as they were, I loved the frequent appearances by Q, and regard "Death Wish" as one of the finest hours of Star Trek, period.

I have serious disagreements with some of the creative choices in made in the series. I think the Maquis/Starfleet tension was brushed over far too quickly. I think Voyager should have had a much harder time of things, like the Equinox. I disliked the character assassination of Kes's final appearance. I think Beltran's dissatisfaction with his job was all too obvious from his acting. I think consistent characterization was a serious problem for the writing staff, but when they hit it, they were on the ball.The Golden relaunch books are so horribly written, I would almost rather give in to my wife and finally read Twilight.

But it's still Star Trek, and I'm still a fan. I have all of the numbered novels, though Pathways and Mosiac are the only ones I'll reread - ocassionally Fire Ship and Ragnarok. I think Full Circle and Unworthy are the best Voyager novels they've ever published.

I also think Deep Space Nine is the best Trek series, for the depth of it's storytelling, and roughly tie TOS and TNG as next. My ranking of these series is mostly based on the overall consistency of their quality. I still like them all. Even Enterprise. Even Voyager.

And I have no problem with the way Captain Janeway died, or if she stays dead. And I don't feel unwelcome in this forum at all.

 

[Thrawn]

Plus, this Board has traditionally been less than friendly to Janeway or Voyager fans

Only if you define "Janeway or Voyager fans" as single-issue drive-by posters who don't read the books but want to complain about one decision made in them, and aren't interested in engaging honestly with the people here.

Otherwise, bullshit.

I think they would be interested in engaging honestly with people here but quite frankly they don't feel welcome.

Well, frankly, if all they want to do is repeat falsehoods (like that the Submission Guidelines have anything to do with what's published), tell everyone here what being a Real Star Trek Fan is like, and complain about plot choices in book series they've never read... yes, they AREN'T welcome.

I think you'll find that, throughout this thread, everyone that had read books before, did not presume to ascribe ulterior motives to the non-MJFs among us (such as calling us sexist or saying we hated Janeway from the beginning), and expressed an opinion that Janeway should come back was treated quite respectfully.

 

[crohnie]

yes, but those 135 people who've voted they want her back are not buying the books.

that's like asking 135 kids who they'd vote for: completely irrelevant.

I buy Trek books and I still voted bring her back. Janeway is my favorite character in all of Trek (wait for it... I'm a girl!) But I got hooked on the TNG post nemesis line after reading Star Trek Destiny. So I read other series besides Voy.

If they decide to bring Janeway back, then Great. But it's not the end of the world for me if they don't. Beyer helped me realize that with her Full Circle/Unworthy duo. IMHO, they shouldn't have killed her in the first place, but we don't need to go through that again.

YMMV
LLAP

 

[Therin of Andor]

According to the posters, Bruce Wayne is back from the dead (again) soon in the "Batman" comics. They all come back eventually.

Controversy sells books. And comics.

 

[elaithin]

^ Captain America, too. I think the only people to stay dead in comics are Uncle Ben and Gwen Stacy. (Used to be Bucky, but...)