Spoilers Sherlock Series 4 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
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Well, there was a bit of deck-stacking there. The idea of another Holmes brother specifically has been seeded before (for instance, the Gene Wilder-Marty Feldman film The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes's Smarter Brother), and they dropped a hint for Holmesians with Mycroft mentioning the name Sherrinford, which apparently was a name Doyle considered for Holmes before settling on Sherlock, and which I've heard bandied about online in the past week as the name of a possible third Holmes brother. So they weren't just relying on sexism to throw us off, but on the pre-existing lore and speculation among the fanbase. I admit I fell for it myself.
Gene Wilder's Siger Holmes derives his name from the theoretical name of Sherlock's father, Siger. When Holmes talks about being a Norwegian violinist name "Sigerson" in "The Empty House," early Holmesians believed that was a clue to the name of Sherlock's father since Sherlock was "Siger's Son" as Sigerson.
Sherrinford does, indeed, derive from some early names ACD considered in writing "A Study in Scarlet." The use as a name for the elder Holmes brother comes from William S. Baring-Gould's biography of Holmes, Sherlock Holmes of Baker Street. The reasoning behind an elder Holmes brother is that Holmes states on occasion that he comes from a line of country squires. Since Mycroft and Sherlock are both in London, it appears that they did not inherit the family's ancestral estate, thus there must be an older brother who did. Sherrinford appears as a character in Andy Lane's Sherlock Holmes books -- as an elder brother in the Doctor Who novel All-Consuming Fire, and later as an uncle to Mycroft and Sherlock in Death Cloud.
With that in mind, is it possible there still is a third brother in addition to a sister? Perhaps the country house we see in the trailer is that ancestral estate? Sherlock has already asked "Why do people always stop at three?"
Or maybe there's only three siblings and the estate is called Sherrinford?
Wilder's character was actually named Sigerson Holmes, as a nod to the "Empty House" alias.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072608/
I actually knew the name Sigerson from the movie before I read the original stories. When I first came upon it in "The Empty House" (most likely in the Granada TV adaptation), I thought, "Ohhh, so that's where it came from!"
It's been a really long time since I've seen it, and I had Wilder's character in my mind as Siger. I stand corrected.
^I think he was nicknamed "Sigi" in the film, which might be where you got that idea.
I'm thinking the same thing, which would explain why Sherlock didn't recognize her.
Neither had I. Wikipedia claims he was "one of the first documented serial killers in the modern sense of the term."
In general, that does make more sense. However, Mycroft says he gets regular updates from Sherrinford and that Sherrinford is "secured." Considering how long Euros has been present in the public (flirting with John on the bus weeks before Mary's death), I think Mycroft would have noticed if Euros escaped by now.
Honestly, I never really take it as just hubris. I take it as Sherlock's Persian flaw, human emotion. She told him to stop it a couple times, & it never clicked. I like to think that's why Mary did it. Maybe she wouldn't have, if it had just been pure gloat, but she couldn't let him die for not having the capacity to gauge a human response, in a situation created by her former life
BTW, am I wrong, or did Mycroft make a phone call in the last episode that could've spawned this whole new series of events, that culminated in the ending of last night's episode?
I just reviewed the end of "His Last Vow" and Mycroft's exact words are "Don't be absurd. I'm not given to outbursts of brotherly passion. You know what happened to the other one."
Just a enough wiggle room for another sibling. That being said, I think that quote sinks my theory about there being another sister and brother.
Ah, good call about the phone because I had forgotten about it. However, I don't see how it could be directly relate to Euros being on the loose considering she was already out and interacting with John at that point. Mycroft sees a sticky note hidden under a menu on his fridge that says "13th" which spurs him to make the phone call.
With last night's revelation, I'm finding myself reflecting on Mycroft's frequent moniker for Sherlock, "Brother of mine". Where once I had only considered it a quaint offhand British reference, now it takes on a whole new level of mystique, to know that it applies in a more functional or ceremonial sense. There's actually something detached & quite cold about the phrase, in being a really self-centered way of considering a sibling, & makes me wonder if it was as common for him to use the phrase in it's inverse form.
It also makes me reflect on Sherlock's jab about Mycroft at Buckingham Palace, when he pours tea & uses the common idiom "I'll be mother", & Sherlock jibes "A whole childhood in a nutshell". Without a doubt, this is one hell of a creepy & perhaps cutthroat family
& clearly this is a show MUCH more about characters, people, relationships, humanity, psyche, etc... than it has EVER been about deductive genius or thwarting criminal minds
I think it's hard to watch this like it's a tv series. In that respect, things that happen, like what just did with Mary, can seem perfunctory, or even cheap, but if you consider this as if it's a group of films, especially given that they're feature film lengths, each of them, it does work better. I'm beginning to feel that for this trilogy's arc, it does make some sense, what happened. I'm certainly feeling a much greater sense of impact than I did from last season. I'm even feeling more forgiving of the treatment of the female characters, despite the rather distasteful & sometimes demeaning way which they connect to Sherlock
It raises the question of which is more empowering to the dramatization of female characters, showcasing them in triumphant grandeur, or showing them amidst the adversity that they can actually endure, because THAT'S how Sherlock's females are treated. Mrs. Hudson has been downright outstanding this season. She calls Mycroft a damn reptile. lol. Everything that Mary means to John was laid out in perfection last night. Its import being something which would not be wasted on Sherlock in his opinion. Molly, Rosie, Irene (Whose moniker is just "The Woman" for god sake) & now Euros. I don't think this show treats its female characters poorly. It's almost ALL females, & I think it treats them TERRIBLY, & marvelously so, & that's the point. You can explore humanity through drama far better at it's worst than at it's best. My only regret, in that sense, is that we were never able to explore Donovan similarly
It also makes me reflect on Sherlock's jab about Mycroft at Buckingham Palace, when he pours tea & uses the common idiom "I'll be mother", & Sherlock jibes "A whole childhood in a nutshell". Without a doubt, this is one hell of a creepy & perhaps cutthroat family
& clearly this is a show MUCH more about characters, people, relationships, humanity, psyche, etc... than it has EVER been about deductive genius or thwarting criminal mindsI think it's hard to watch this like it's a tv series. In that respect, things that happen, like what just did with Mary, can seem perfunctory, or even cheap, but if you consider this as if it's a group of films, especially given that they're feature film lengths, each of them, it does work better. I'm beginning to feel that for this trilogy's arc, it does make some sense, what happened. I'm certainly feeling a much greater sense of impact than I did from last season. I'm even feeling more forgiving of the treatment of the female characters, despite the rather distasteful & sometimes demeaning way which they connect to Sherlock
It raises the question of which is more empowering to the dramatization of female characters, showcasing them in triumphant grandeur, or showing them amidst the adversity that they can actually endure, because THAT'S how Sherlock's females are treated. Mrs. Hudson has been downright outstanding this season. She calls Mycroft a damn reptile. lol. Everything that Mary means to John was laid out in perfection last night. Its import being something which would not be wasted on Sherlock in his opinion. Molly, Rosie, Irene (Whose moniker is just "The Woman" for god sake) & now Euros. I don't think this show treats its female characters poorly. It's almost ALL females, & I think it treats them TERRIBLY, & marvelously so, & that's the point. You can explore humanity through drama far better at it's worst than at it's best. My only regret, in that sense, is that we were never able to explore Donovan similarly
I've enjoyed both episodes so far, and I'm looking forward to the finale on Sunday.
That guy is rumored for everything..........
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5...c138X8IAAAQvxSL2Gw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
A fun look inside Sherlock's abode.
A fun look inside Sherlock's abode.
Eurus not Euros...the latter are money
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