Spoilers Sherlock Series 4 Discussion Thread

[Claudia]

I agreed with the Guardian's core point, especially their argument that it was with Mary that the show lost its way.
I compare the scene where he, for no good reason, decides to physically take on the criminal single handedly in a 007 action sequence rather than call the police, to the scene in A Study in Pink where Sherlock meets the cabbie in a game of wits, wanting to solve a puzzle even if he has to stake his life on being right. I can't help but feel the character and what made this show special has got buried under the razzmatazz of being 'event' TV.

I don't know if it's the core point of the argument - but I found myself agreeing that one of the basic points of Sherlock was "brainy is the new sexy". And that definitely got lost with season 3, TAB and TST (even if I like the humanization of Sherlock but not at the expense of what made the series special - and Sherlock admitting that he makes up facts or deductions doesn't help there, either).

I think Mary could have worked if they hadn't spent 5/6th of season 3 on absolutely irrelevant stuff. There's just that "liar"-deduction when Sherlock first meets her, but the rest of TEH and TSOT is more or less playing with the fans with little to no content... which relates back to the lack of brainy. The problem rather is that the other core element of the show is also totally missing, the relationship between John and Sherlock which was absent in TST.

I didn't mind the action sequences because, as you say, there have been such scenes before: ASiP, TBB (where Sherlock fights in Baker Street), so that's not really unusual. Sherlock almost always takes things into his own hands and doesn't call for backup...

 

[Romulan_spy]

I don't know if this has already been discussed but I feel like Sherlock's powers of deduction in this show are coming across as a bit too easy, almost like an actual superpower. For example, the quick montage of Sherlock solving cases was too fast. The deductions had no context. We just see Sherlock "magically" knowing the answers to everything. I think it would be better if the show slowed down a bit, explained more how Sherlock deduces something. That way, the audience could see that the deduction is logical and makes sense rather than something Sherlock is pulling out of thin air.

 

[Christopher]

I don't know if this has already been discussed but I feel like Sherlock's powers of deduction in this show are coming across as a bit too easy, almost like an actual superpower. For example, the quick montage of Sherlock solving cases was too fast. The deductions had no context. We just see Sherlock "magically" knowing the answers to everything. I think it would be better if the show slowed down a bit, explained more how Sherlock deduces something. That way, the audience could see that the deduction is logical and makes sense rather than something Sherlock is pulling out of thin air.

Right. I commented on that in a guest column I did for Locus Online a couple years back:

When I read or watch a Holmes story, I want to see Holmes actually reasoning to a conclusion and explaining his process, not just glancing at someone and seeing a bunch of words floating in air. That was a clever technique on Sherlock‘s part several years ago, an innovative presentation of the standard routine—though always a bit redundant, just reinforcing what Holmes went on to explain in dialogue. But by now it’s become just an offhand trope with no accompanying explanation, because Moffat and Gatiss apparently aren’t interested in Holmes’s deductive process as much as they are in his so-called sociopathy, his flamboyant eccentricities, his gay subtext with Watson, and so on. They write Holmes the same way Moffat writes the Doctor, and his “methods” are just the sonic screwdriver, a plot device that can offhandedly do whatever the script requires without the need for explanation or justification.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I feel like Sherlock's powers of deduction in this show are coming across as a bit too easy, almost like an actual superpower. For example, the quick montage of Sherlock solving cases was too fast. The deductions had no context. We just see Sherlock "magically" knowing the answers to everything. I think it would be better if the show slowed down a bit, explained more how Sherlock deduces something. That way, the audience could see that the deduction is logical and makes sense rather than something Sherlock is pulling out of thin air.

In addition to what Christopher wrote, writing an explanation for Holmes' "deductive tricks" is hard. It's easier to write Sherlock as omniscient than as someone who's using his deductive powers, especially knowing that the audience is going to know that Sherlock is using deduction even if it's not explained. It's shorthand writing, if not downright lazy writing.

Elementary handles the deductive part better, in my opinion, for a couple of reasons. First, Elementary doesn't treat Sherlock's peers as idiots. Instead, they're smart, observant people who see a lot of the picture but not the whole picture, so Sherlock has to fill in the gaps and does so in a way that respects the intelligence of his peers. Second, Elementary takes the time to show us Sherlock actually observing, so we as the viewer are clued in that there's something there to observe. We probably won't see it, but it's there. Third, Elementary shows us Sherlock working his theories to form a conclusion, not jumping straight to the conclusion. And fourth, Elementary generally eschews the "Sherlock sees everything" cliche of the sort we saw in the case montage in "The Six Thatchers."

As an aside, Elementary's Sherlock would have handled pretty much everything in "The Six Thatchers" differently. He wouldn't have been the brusque asshole with the parents whose son died mysteriously in the car. He would have brought up the missing Thatcher bust at the end of the conversation instead of making it the focus of his energies. He would have had backup in the house when the assassin tried to take the final bust. And he sure as heck wouldn't have taunted the secretary in the aquarium. The difference is that while both modern-day Sherlocks are fiercely intelligence, only one of them seems to have wisdom.

Okay, another Elementary aside. I'm not sure if Gatiss meant to evoke Elementary, but the hacker who owned Toby seemed very much like Elementary-Sherlock's hacker group. Similar sort of backstory, similar sort of role. A lot of that sequence, from the revelation that Sherlock had a hacker he could call on to the real reason why Sherlock was going to the hacker in this case, seemed like it was suited for Jonny Lee Miller and Lucy Liu.

 

[Christopher]

Elementary handles the deductive part better, in my opinion, for a couple of reasons. First, Elementary doesn't treat Sherlock's peers as idiots. Instead, they're smart, observant people who see a lot of the picture but not the whole picture, so Sherlock has to fill in the gaps and does so in a way that respects the intelligence of his peers.

Yes. We've actually seen Watson become a capable detective in her own right, a full partner to Holmes rather than an assistant. I think that's a pretty original take, leaving aside deconstructive pastiches like Without a Clue (I think that's the title) where Watson is the real detective. And you also have Detective Bell being a pretty good cop rather than a Lestrade-esque bumbler. (I liked the scene in a recent episode where Holmes came into the police station after having been away for a while and Bell deadpan-teased him about how totally lost the department had been without him.)

The thing is, of course, that the original Holmes stories promoted forensic-science methods that were still innovative at the time, with police departments still relying largely on eyewitnesses and (frequently coerced) confessions, but today Holmes's methods are pretty much the standard practice of every police crime lab (although there's unfortunately still a lot of reliance on coerced confessions, even if the coercion is less physical). So a modern Holmes should logically have more peers -- which makes it harder to find a credible way to make him stand out. Both shows rely on Holmes having a special genius for observation and logical leaps, and a looser approach to procedure that gives him certain freedoms the police lack, but as always, Sherlock takes both to a more caricatured extreme.

As an aside, Elementary's Sherlock would have handled pretty much everything in "The Six Thatchers" differently. He wouldn't have been the brusque asshole with the parents whose son died mysteriously in the car. He would have brought up the missing Thatcher bust at the end of the conversation instead of making it the focus of his energies. He would have had backup in the house when the assassin tried to take the final bust. And he sure as heck wouldn't have taunted the secretary in the aquarium. The difference is that while both modern-day Sherlocks are fiercely intelligence, only one of them seems to have wisdom.

As I realized when writing my Locus column, I think the difference in the two Sherlocks could be attributed to the difference in their Watsons. Joan originally came to her Holmes as a sober companion, a therapist helping him recover from addiction and find a more healthy way of living and relating to others; but John Hamish is a danger junkie who enables his Holmes's excesses despite his surface objections to them. Joan brought out the best in Sherlock Holmes while John Hamish brought out the worst.

 

[cultcross]

I really need to watch Elementary some time.

 

[Claudia]

The difference is that while both modern-day Sherlocks are fiercely intelligence, only one of them seems to have wisdom.

Which in a way has been what Sherlock's all about.

I try not to compare these shows, I just enjoy them both (even though Elementary not with the same fervor as Sherlock). They have another format, another focus, another setting, other dynamics etc. I mean Elementary has almost 100 episodes (have they already reached that mark?), so of course they can spend more time on the actual detective work and not just rush through it to come to the interpersonal parts. And in a way Elementary's Sherlock already had to face his crises at the beginning of the series, Sherlock's a spoiled brat enabled by John, Mycroft and Lestrade - in a way, he only got more conscious of the importance of social niceties with his return in season 3... and even if the whole scene with the 1st bust seems absolutely horrible from the parents' PoV, would Sherlock from season 1 even have thought of expressing any kind of genuine condolences (even if the timing was horribly off, he seemed actually sorry once he refocused from the bust)?

But I absolutely like Christopher's point about Joh/an, both coming from wholly different directions. Definitely sets quite a different tone to the respective series as this is the core relationship of either programme.

 

[Markk]

Liked the first.. But I was sad to see Mary go...

 

[Captain Shaw]

I really did not enjoy this one. Too far fetched.

Spoiler: ep2

I thought the therapist would end up being the big bad, I mean what therapist would have a rug shaped like a blood stain? But I confess to being a bit slow realising who she was

 

[Mage]

This was highly enjoyable, tonight's episode.

To me, this show really isn't about the crimes or how they are solved and what not. But about the connections between the characters, how they respond to the emotions that are part of the connections, and how they respond to each others. It's not a crime show. Didn't even start out like one. Not to me. It was and is about the characters, from the very first scene of the very first episode. Hell, if you watch some of the scenes of the original, unaired pilot, character dynamics were always more important than the actual murders/crimes.

 

[diankra]

Any way, watch out for the "appearance" of a 1960s Who character in 4x02.

 

[Relayer1]

Liking S4 substantially more than S3, and glad as I was to see the back of Mary, I enjoyed her part in tonights episode.

 

[Claudia]

This was highly enjoyable, tonight's episode.

To me, this show really isn't about the crimes or how they are solved and what not. But about the connections between the characters, how they respond to the emotions that are part of the connections, and how they respond to each others. It's not a crime show. Didn't even start out like one. Not to me. It was and is about the characters, from the very first scene of the very first episode. Hell, if you watch some of the scenes of the original, unaired pilot, character dynamics were always more important than the actual murders/crimes.

Agreed. Just rewatched the unofficial pilot... and have to admit I like it better than the actual one (which already is one of my favourite episodes of the whole series) because the plot flows better, it's better balanced out with the beginning of Sherlock and John's friendship and their instant connection. And it showed Sherlock miscalculating right in the beginning of the whole series.

I do have my issues with The Lying Detective, though. First off, the whole case was a rip-off of the Magnussen problem. So the first hour rather alienated me, not just because of the case but because of John. I really like that the friendship is back on track, but I certainly don't like John anymore. I still don't understand the blaming game. I guess it was as I thought his self-blame because of the affair transferred onto Sherlock for breaking his vow (which actually was only about "being there for you 3"), but he took that to a whole new level. The scene in the morgue... the violence, kicking Sherlock when he's down... and again not facing any consequences... that's a hard pill to swallow even for adrenaline-junkie John and his being prone to aggression (again HLV, the drug den, his "you won't need morphine" to Sherlock; and of course TAB!John threatening Sherlock - puts a new spin on what Sherlock's willing to do to save John).

I absolutely liked Mary here, being John's good sense (even though an assassin playing his conscience is a bit bizarre). But I'm glad to see the last of her now. I loved John's confession and Sherlock's reaction... not much of a sociopath here (at least not the one we'd expect).

The twist... well, two things are confirmed: John sees but doesn't observe. And Sherlock actually made himself since he apparently deleted all notion of another sibling... perhaps that also explains his blindness towards women's actions/pasts.

Mrs Hudson driving a sports car to the the EU-anthem was great, as was Sherlock's walking "Fuck off" around London...

I'm looking forward to next week - which definitely has the smell of a conclusion.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Much like the last episode, this was a bit of a weird episode, and while I'll need to watch both episodes again to fully take in everything that's going on (logically and emotionally), at least "The Lying Detective" has the benefit of not having a major course change in the plot halfway.

While I'm not sure if I can reconcile John's beat down of Sherlock in the morgue, the rest of his behavior still feels right to me. John is in a raw position. He's not just an adrenaline-junkie, he's addicted to danger and that's simply not a good mental state to be in. Maybe his addiction to danger is why he was able to look pass Mary's sins of the past. Maybe not. Either way, he loved her. He needed her. She helped him climb out of the deep hole he was in after Sherlock's fake death. Even with Sherlock's return, John still needed Mary. So losing her in such a traumatic fashion (regardless whether or not Sherlock was at blame), John's anger and grief makes sense. And that's on top of the normal grief anyone would feel after losing a loved one in a tragic situation. John fell deep into a different well of despair which was exacerbated by John's guilt for emotionally cheating on Mary. This caused him to use that anger and grief and guilt to blame Sherlock for breaking his vow. Was it right? No, of course not, and John finally admits that in the end.

However, does that explain his violent reaction against Sherlock in the morgue? I don't know. That's going to have take time and at least one more viewing of both episodes. But I will keep an open mind, because as Mage and Claudia have noted, the show is very much concerned about the emotions of these characters and I think it's vital for the viewers to do our best to try to understand them. Emotions aren't an easy thing to grasp.

I quite liked Mary lingering in John's mind, acting as part of his thought process and as a crutch for her absence. This highlighted just how messed up John was in his mind. And it should be noted, that while she could be seen lingering throughout the episode, she was not present during the morgue scene.

As for Mary's special case for Sherlock, I like how it was also used as a tool for Sherlock to deal with the situation. I also liked how it didn't actually help John. Sure, John did rush to the hospital to save Sherlock in the nick of time (what a convenient time for John to find the DVD!) and it did push John in the right direction to heal and confuse to Sherlock, but he initially strongly resisted, probably because he saw the video of her laying out that plan. Instead, the trigger for catharsis was (again, conveniently timed) Irene's text message to Sherlock.

Speaking of Irene, I'm thrilled to have her survival confirmed and that the final scene of "A Scandal of Belgravia" wasn't just in Sherlock's head as some fans have speculated. This leaves the door open for her return, and while as much as I would love for her to show up, I don't expect her to appear in next week's episode.

I feel rather foolish concerning the identity of Euros, at least in regards to Faith and John's therapist being the same woman. I noticed their individual attractiveness, as well as John's bus friend last week, even went as far as casually remarking their basic similarities, and yet I didn't make the connection between the three of them. Having her turn out to be Euros, Sherlock and Mycroft's secret sister, certainly caught me by surprise entirely.

After a week of people going on in this thread about how the series doesn't take the time anymore to show Sherlock's thought process, I was greatly amused how the series presented an extensive breakdown of just that in this episode. As if Moffat could hear his viewers complaining, and this isn't the first time I've seen this happening, for either Sherlock or Doctor Who.

One small thing really bothered me: John casually mentions in front of Greg how Sherlock shot Magnussen in the face. However, Greg wasn't there, and considering the highly secretive nature of that event and its cover-up, he shouldn't have been purvey to that information. He certainly didn't seem surprised by that information when John said it.

I lied. One other thing bothered me: While I get Culverton was showing off and playing with Sherlock's head, I thought having a conference room in the hospital with the memory-altering IV solutions already set-up at the table very strange. Why would those just be sitting there in such a location, even in a hospital wing Culverton ensured the design for?

Lastly, before I forget: Toby Jones was smashing as Culverton (although was his nasty teeth really necessary?) and Una Stubbs as Mrs. Hudson continues to steal every scene she's in.

Prediction for next week's episode: Of course, Euros doesn't actually shoot John (probably a dart gun or something) and John spends a significant amount of time in the well we glimpsed several times in the trailer while Sherlock and Mycroft deal with Euros.

 

[Christopher]

I almost missed the first half-hour of this one, because all the TV listings said it was on at 9:30, but when I switched channels to PBS after The Librarians (just so it'd be on the right station in half an hour), I saw the opening donor credits to Masterpiece Mystery instead of the last half-hour of the rerun of last week's episode as scheduled. So I stuck around to see what was going on, and it was the new episode half an hour early. I got lucky there.

I wasn't even sure I wanted to keep watching after last week, but this one was better. Still crazy and excessive and overindulgent, but the characters came off better in the end, and there was some interesting plotting and other stuff. I was certainly glad to hear Watson drop the "You killed my wife" nonsense and acknowledge that Mary was her own person who made her own choices, which is what she deserved. And Mrs. Hudson is kind of awesome.

Hmm... I guess Sherlock predicting 2 weeks in advance what therapist John would go to is foreshadowing of a sort, since it explains how Euros could've used a parallel deductive process to arrive at the same conclusion and take over that therapist's identity.

Any way, watch out for the "appearance" of a 1960s Who character in 4x02.

I missed it. What was it?

Mrs Hudson driving a sports car to the the EU-anthem was great

I think the music was Beethoven's Ode to Joy. Is that the EU anthem? (Checks Wikipedia) Oh. Yeah, apparently it is. Hm.

 

[The Wormhole]

Really don't know what to make of this one. Starts off really trippy, then ends rather derivative. As pointed out, this is basically similar to Magnussen in which Sherlock is entrapping and taking down a power figure. A random though passed through my brain during the earlier scenes with the therapist that she was somehow connected to Culverton Smith, and what do you know, in a manner of speaking I was right. And I really didn't enjoy all the stuff about death as it felt like season 9 of Doctor Who where every episode essentially had a metaphorical neon sign stating "PEOPLE DIE" and that's what the death discussions felt like in this episode. Moffat is really losing his subtlety.

Any way, watch out for the "appearance" of a 1960s Who character in 4x02.

Yeah, caught that one. Reporter Harold Chorley.

 

[JRoss]

So what's weird about tonight's episode is that I did not recognize the first Faith as the girl from the bus. I did immediately recognize the therapist, and I thought that this episode merely took place several years later (thus the gray hair). Then I just chalked it up to my Aspergers and not being able to tell people apart. I always have trouble recognizing blondes.

 

[Starkers]

Bit of a flipside from last week for me. Last week I'd really quite enjoyed the story only to have it weakened a little by the ending. Here the ending made the story. I thought it was a little too trippy, and as well as the similarity to the Magnusson story I thought Culverton Smith was a little too on the nose as a Jimmy Saville style predator.

Still over all good (and I loved Mrs Hudson's bits!) but it was the last five minutes or so that made it, and made me re-evaluate what I'd seen in both this episode and last week's. Suddenly the girl on the bus makes a lot more sense. I didn't have the problem with John cheating that some people had, I remember in S2 when he was portrayed as a bit of a player who had a different girl every week, but I'd still just thought it was something designed to provide Watson with added guilt but oh my I didn't expect that!

I thought the twist worked well on many levels. If Euros is, presumably, every bit as clever as Sherlock and Mycroft then it makes perfect sense that she could appear as the perfect 'other woman' for John. When Watson challenged Mycroft about there being another brother and he obfuscates we're meant to assume he's lying, except he's not, and given the crap Moffat gets a lot of the time over sexism I think it's very clever that more than a few of his critics would have fallen for the old surgeon who can't operate on the son riddle and assumed the third Holmes sibling was a boy (and full disclosure I did).

As for people saying John can't be dead because he's in the trailers I'd point out that Amanda Abbingdon was in this week's episode quite a bit! (I don't think he is dead, just don't think we can completely rule it out.)

So when Euros/Faith told Sherlock he wasn't what she was expecting, that he was nice, do people think that was just part of her role-play, or a genuinely sisterly revelation? I'm guessing whatever happened with Euros happened when all three children were very young.

Also the HH Holmes stuff was interesting as I'd never heard of that before!

 

[KennyB]

So what's weird about tonight's episode is that I did not recognize the first Faith as the girl from the bus. I did immediately recognize the therapist, and I thought that this episode merely took place several years later (thus the gray hair). Then I just chalked it up to my Aspergers and not being able to tell people apart. I always have trouble recognizing blondes.

They fully fooled me with the Bus/Faith/Therapist.........Damn them.........

 

[Starkers]

It was a very nicely handled deception, I didn't see any correlation between any of those characters either. Guess from the perspective of Faith we were focused on the cane/glasses, and with the therapist it was the grey hair. It's also a nice play on the notion of Holmes as a master of disguise.

I think it really helped that the actress is not that well known.