SG-U – Faith (1x13) - (Discuss – Grade | SPOILERS)

[Robert Maxwell]

Geez, guys, it's not like the show is forcing the viewpoint down your throats. One character was saying all that, and apparently most of the other characters disagreed with him too. Otherwise they would have stayed.

I find it hard to believe any kind of scientist would buy into such bunk. Not believing in God, exactly--there are plenty of scientists who do--but coming to this off-the-wall conclusion that God built this place for them to find and settle down on! I mean, !

I really like Greer, though. He's hilarious. I'm also waiting for Rush to have another meltdown, because those are entertaining.

Was Caine, Dr. Caine? I thought he was just an computer technician. However we are showing are Dawkinian prejudices here. Sort of like Governor Ventura saying religion is the sign of a weak mind. To the Christian world Saul became Paul in an instant. We don't know Caine went into this as an atheist/agnostic when he found his Garden of Eden. What do we know about him? He turned down the opportunity to bunk with 2nd LT James, perhaps an existing faith base was the unsaid reason.

I think I am just articulating my criticism poorly.

Caine was the only person who had a substantial line of reasoning behind his desire to remain behind. He expounded on it to others and tried to "sell" it. He was largely dismissed. Others did want to stay, but none of them elaborated to the degree Caine did. TJ's decision ("I don't want to raise my child on Destiny") comes off as arbitrary because we didn't see any of the thought processes leading up to it. Same goes for many of the others. Caine was basically the only person who expressed any kind of foundation for his intention to stay. Since the others dismissed his reasoning without providing their own justifications, it made the whole dilemma look very one-sided. "We want to stay behind... just because." I mean, yeah, it was a nice planet and everything, but they have no idea what the seasons are like, or if there's any wildlife elsewhere they had yet to encounter, or diseases with long incubation periods, or anything.

Caine's notion that "God did it" at least lets him rationalize that the planet is a paradise and nothing bad will happen to him there. Everyone else just looks a bit childish for wanting to shirk their duties and responsibilities just because they're sick of being on Destiny.

In other words, Caine was the only person who had a well-developed rationale for staying behind, even if it hinged on an immense leap of faith. We didn't get to explore the reasons behind anyone else staying, and I think that's a missed opportunity. I think we could've seen much more compelling and well-conceived arguments in favor of staying, but the writers decided to focus on the kooky guy who firmly believes "God did it and God wants us to stay!"

 

[Magisterfrodo]

Well, this was better than "Divided," but that's not saying much.

Somebody should tell the people producing this show that music montages are only effective when used in moderation. Using them in every damn episode gets old. We're, what, 3 episodes into this half of the season, and I think all of them have had a montage? Give it a rest, people!

This was a quiet, personal episode, and I appreciate the attempt by the writers to branch out, but too much time was spent on one-off characters. I also think the decision to stay on the planet is remarkably shortsighted. Sure, Destiny isn't in great shape, but the ship has a wealth of technology they can leverage to stay alive, should they live long enough to analyze it. I don't see the planet being anything more than death trap, no matter how beautiful it is.

It also rang completely false to me, the notion that "God" (or some other superpowerful force) built this solar system specifically so they'd stumble across it and settle there. Come on. That sort of argument just doesn't do anything for me. Stay on the planet because you think you'd have a better life there, not because you think [deity/superalien] wants you to. Or stay because Destiny is falling apart and if you're gonna die away from home, you'd rather do it somewhere idyllic and peaceful, and not on an ancient Ancient rustbucket.

People is desperate situations will cling to anything. i think, given what they have been going through and the bleak nature of life on Destiny, that it is perfectly realistic that people would latch onto such a notion of this ideallic planet being placed there just for them. It's not rational, but humans become less rational the more difficult things get.

 

[Silvercrest]

I find it hard to believe any kind of scientist would buy into such bunk. Not believing in God, exactly--there are plenty of scientists who do--but coming to this off-the-wall conclusion that God built this place for them to find and settle down on! I mean, !

I really like Greer, though. He's hilarious. I'm also waiting for Rush to have another meltdown, because those are entertaining.

Was Caine, Dr. Caine? I thought he was just an computer technician. However we are showing are Dawkinian prejudices here. Sort of like Governor Ventura saying religion is the sign of a weak mind. To the Christian world Saul became Paul in an instant. We don't know Caine went into this as an atheist/agnostic when he found his Garden of Eden. What do we know about him? He turned down the opportunity to bunk with 2nd LT James, perhaps an existing faith base was the unsaid reason.

I think I am just articulating my criticism poorly.

Caine was the only person who had a substantial line of reasoning behind his desire to remain behind. He expounded on it to others and tried to "sell" it. He was largely dismissed. Others did want to stay, but none of them elaborated to the degree Caine did. TJ's decision ("I don't want to raise my child on Destiny") comes off as arbitrary because we didn't see any of the thought processes leading up to it. Same goes for many of the others. Caine was basically the only person who expressed any kind of foundation for his intention to stay. Since the others dismissed his reasoning without providing their own justifications, it made the whole dilemma look very one-sided. "We want to stay behind... just because." I mean, yeah, it was a nice planet and everything, but they have no idea what the seasons are like, or if there's any wildlife elsewhere they had yet to encounter, or diseases with long incubation periods, or anything.

Caine's notion that "God did it" at least lets him rationalize that the planet is a paradise and nothing bad will happen to him there. Everyone else just looks a bit childish for wanting to shirk their duties and responsibilities just because they're sick of being on Destiny.

In other words, Caine was the only person who had a well-developed rationale for staying behind, even if it hinged on an immense leap of faith. We didn't get to explore the reasons behind anyone else staying, and I think that's a missed opportunity. I think we could've seen much more compelling and well-conceived arguments in favor of staying, but the writers decided to focus on the kooky guy who firmly believes "God did it and God wants us to stay!"

I'll buy that. Granted, I think there were a lot of implied or highly plausible reasons-- as I stated earlier, you've got people on the verge of starvation, in a ship that can barely support life, and under what they see as a trigger-happy military dictatorship. They might very well jump ship the first chance they get, whether God is involved or not. That's why I accepted it at face value.

But we weren't told any of that reasoning, and it is a flaw, particularly given how faceless a lot of the side characters are already. Aside from the military people, Eli, Rush, and Chloe, I have a hard time telling them apart.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

As far as I could tell - All civilians except two (the skeptic and Chloe) stayed behind. It looked like 15-20 people.

Actually, I think Volker came back to Destiny, I thought I saw him behind Chloe when she walked past Eli.

 

[Gepard]

I think we could've seen much more compelling and well-conceived arguments in favor of staying, but the writers decided to focus on the kooky guy who firmly believes "God did it and God wants us to stay!"

Shallow, one-dimensional religious philosophizing: just another way SGU is trying (and failing) to be like nuBSG.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I think we could've seen much more compelling and well-conceived arguments in favor of staying, but the writers decided to focus on the kooky guy who firmly believes "God did it and God wants us to stay!"

Shallow, one-dimensional religious philosophizing: just another way SGU is trying (and failing) to be like nuBSG.

One thing I am honestly surprised they didn't bring up is that Rush is the one who is so obsessed with Destiny as a scientific find. The others don't seem to care quite as much, they just follow his orders. Why didn't anyone step up and say, "Look, we know Destiny is Rush's baby, but we just don't care that much. We don't find spending the rest of our lives in this Ancient deathtrap appealing, even if it's to advance the cause of science. We're people first, scientists second. We have real needs that this ship can't fulfill. And since we're unlikely to ever make it back, won't all this research be for nothing? What's the point? Why can't we just enjoy what time we have left on a rather nice planet?"

 

[Tom]

It seemed like quite a few at first. Maybe somewhere between 30-50. Obviously not a full crew, but not insignificant either.

After the first episode however, it seems we only see a handful at a time. Perhaps they take shifts?

There was about 80 that went through the gate to the Destiny according to General O'Neill in "Air". We had 3 or 4 die, 2 gated to an unknown world, and at least 8 people stayed on the planet in this episode. So we are down to about 65 or so people in total.

The reason you don't see everyone is that the writers want to be able to bring fresh people in from time to time. If we saw all the crew we would say where the heck did this guy come from? But, if we dont see all the crew and see a new guy we can assume he is just one of the people aboard we have never seen. They just did this recently witht he 'religous guy' that stayed behind.

 

[Silvercrest]

I thought they said there were eleven people on the team? And we know of five or so who came back, so there can't be more than half a dozen who stayed behind.

Or am I wrong about the eleven people?

 

[Star Wolf]

Re: SG-U

I thought they said there were eleven people on the team? And we know of five or so who came back, so there can't be more than half a dozen who stayed behind.

Or am I wrong about the eleven people?

By radio Scott reported 11 wanted to stay, including himself, Chloe and TJ. We don't know if they included other military and we don't if others changed their minds and stayed when the big three returned to Destiny. It looked like more then eight walked the other way when the sceptic and Master Sergeant Greer stood behind the Colonel

 

[Silvercrest]

Re: SG-U

As far as I could tell - All civilians except two (the skeptic and Chloe) stayed behind. It looked like 15-20 people.

Actually, I think Volker came back to Destiny, I thought I saw him behind Chloe when she walked past Eli.

I thought they said there were eleven people on the team? And we know of five or so who came back, so there can't be more than half a dozen who stayed behind.

Or am I wrong about the eleven people?

By radio Scott reported 11 wanted to stay, including himself, Chloe and TJ. We don't know if they included other military and we don't if others changed their minds and stayed when the big three returned to Destiny. It looked like more then eight walked the other way when the sceptic and Master Sergeant Greer stood behind the Colonel

Oh, that's right. 11 wanted to stay, but that wasn't the entire team or he would have said so. It probably wasn't even most of the team, or that would have been pointed out as well. So that puts the size of the team at, what, a minimum of 20 people? Assume between 20 and 25.

So if Scott, Chloe, TJ, Greer, Volker, and possibly a few no-names came back, there could easily be 12 to 20 people still on the planet.

Does that sound reasonable?

 

[David cgc]

Re: SG-U

No, because if there were eleven people who wanted to stay on the planet, and some of them ended up going back to the ship, the amount of people who did stay would have to be less than eleven.

 

[Silvercrest]

Re: SG-U

That was my original reasoning as well-- that there were no more than six people who would have stayed. Possibly fewer.

But Hyperspace05 and Star Wolf point out that on-screen evidence is a little different. I'm just rationalizing/extrapolating from what we did see. Perhaps more people decided to stay after Scott's report.

It was pretty silly that the show didn't see fit to tell us how many people they lost, or even how many people were there in the first place.

 

[Star Wolf]

I remember during the Apollo missions the time delay in taking by radio. There was no Stargate open to accelerate radio signals was there any acknowledgment of time delay in Young's and Scott's communication?

 

[Harvey]

Hopefully they'll address the number of people (And who) in this week's episode. It seems like an awfully careless thread to leave hanging.

 

[David cgc]

I remember during the Apollo missions the time delay in taking by radio. There was no Stargate open to accelerate radio signals was there any acknowledgment of time delay in Young's and Scott's communication?

They did not. However, I can't remember if they were using their hand radios or the ones that came with Destiny and the shuttle. The latter would make more sense, as the hand radios wouldn't have a range of hundreds or thousands of miles, and the Ancients probably nailed FTL communications at the same time they nailed FTL everything else.

 

[Starkers]

Really liked this episode, the series is really growing on me. Some great Greer moments (but he's been my favourite character since the pilot) Young is maturing into a very complex character, not your typical command type and its nice they have him not only making mistakes, but realising he has and trying to alter his tactics in future. Rush was good here and I liked Ming Na's character a lot here. Also it was nice to see people actually leaving the ship, that was one thing that always seemed kinda flat in Voyager, they founs countless places where people could have made a new life yet nobody, not one solitary Maquis crewman, ever jumped ship.

 

[propita]

I don't mind the musical montages, even if they are every episode. They're expository without the words, tracking the progress of the characters. And I rather have short 2-3 clips showing the status of the characters, individually and as a group, over long-winded verbal expository "See, this is how I'm feeling now" crap.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

I don't mind the musical montages, even if they are every episode. They're expository without the words, tracking the progress of the characters. And I rather have short 2-3 clips showing the status of the characters, individually and as a group, over long-winded verbal expository "See, this is how I'm feeling now" crap.

Me too, with the lame exception of "Don't Forget To Breathe." Other than that I enjoy the montages.

 

[Yoda]

Really? We got people defending the SGU montages? Those aren't montages mate...

THIS is a montage:
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZA6mvMXxBQ[/yt]

The SGU montages can get bent.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

Now that's a cross-genre comparison if ever I heard one. Personally, I'd rather watch the SGU montages. But I do enjoy the dialogue scenes more. It's not the first time Stargate has used montages, Unending (the SG1 finale) used Have You Ever Seen The Rain.