Seven of Kes

[exodus]

Was her photographic memory ever mentioned on the show? I can't recall...

They used the word "Eidetic" instead of photographic.
She displays it in "Twisted".

Ah, thank you

I still don't consider her a nurse, however. She just didn't have a real role anywhere on the ship. Heaven help me, Neelix was more needed than she was.

Probably because they never showed the skills she learned in action. Not only did we always see the Doc. working but he would explain what he had to do even while doing it. Giving the Doc. his mobile emitter was a sure sign they were starting to write her out.


Piper, I disagree.
The Doc. never wanted to be human.
For 7 years he told us he believed being a hologram made him superior to humans.
He just wanted to be treated as an equal and not be dismissed because he wasn't born of flesh & blood.
His theme was about civil rights, which transends just being human.
Odo would have rights under Federation law & he's neither human nor humanoid.

 

[Lynx]

.... Additionally, Kes was more-or-less the Doc's little sidekick anyway. She wasn't really a nurse. In fact, it always puzzled me how she could possibly learn enough to be a nurse in the short amount of years she was on Voyager. I get that we should 'suppose' she learns super fast since she only lives seven years, but we never really saw that on screen.

So, I wouldn't even consider her a nurse.

Actually in one of the first episodes in season one, Kes showed she had impressive abilities in absorbing information and remembering things well.... as she even surprised the Doctor when she handed him back things he didn't expect she'd complete so soon. I can't remember exactly which episode it was, but they did squeeze in a little snippet to explain she's a fast learner.

In regards to the trade-off between Seven and Kes.... I don't see why they couldn't keep both. Keeping one or the other shows that the series could have taken two paths.... with the removal of Kes and moving to Seven, they changed the direction the series was heading to focus more on the Borg.

If they left Kes in and never adopted Seven into the cast, it would have left some large holes in the plots of future episodes, like many instances where they needed Seven to save their butts against the Borg, etc.

Also... if they did leave Kes in the series, the series would have been over in 3-4 more episodes. Before Kes did leave, she gave them a "Gift" by tossing them closer to home by a few extra light years.... if she remained in the series, then people here would be begging the question "Why didn't she keep using her abilities over and over until they reached the Alpha quadrant?"

Which would have ruined all the fun

But in the end, neither Kes or Seven were my favorite characters, but I still liked each for different reasons and it could have been interesting to see what would have evolved if both remained.

I guess you are referring to the powers she ashowed up in "The Gift".

If they hadn't decided to dump the character some time between seasons 3 and 4 or in the beginning of season 4, then she would never have got such ridiculous powers. They were only the excuse to have her leave the ship. If Kes had stayed, she would have been basically the same as in seasons 1-3.

 

[Lynx]

They used the word "Eidetic" instead of photographic.
She displays it in "Twisted".

Ah, thank you

I still don't consider her a nurse, however. She just didn't have a real role anywhere on the ship. Heaven help me, Neelix was more needed than she was.

Probably because they never showed the skills she learned in action. Not only did we always see the Doc. working but he would explain what he had to do even while doing it. Giving the Doc. his mobile emitter was a sure sign they were starting to write her out.


Piper, I disagree.
The Doc. never wanted to be human.
For 7 years he told us he believed being a hologram made him superior to humans.
He just wanted to be treated as an equal and not be dismissed because he wasn't born of flesh & blood.
His theme was about civil rights, which transends just being human.
Odo would have rights under Federation law & he's neither human nor humanoid.

Given The Doc his mobile emitter had nothing to do with Kes. It was just because they wanted Picardo to have a more important role. The decision to give The Doctor a mobile emitter was taken long before they decided to kick ut Kes.

As a matter of fact, in "Future's End, part 2", The Doctor states that Kes's role as a nurse will be more important when The Doctor was allowed to move around more because someone had to be in sickbay when The Doctor was out on some mission or adventure. A reverse situation to when Kes was the one sent out on emergency missions.

They were both needed as Voyager's medical personnel.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Yes. Jennifer Lien did a decent job playing Kes, but the writing for that character just wasn't there.

 

[Joeman]

Yes. Jennifer Lien did a decent job playing Kes, but the writing for that character just wasn't there.

For me, That's pretty much the bottom line. Well said.

 

[vess]

They should've found a way to bring Tasha Yar back and on Voyager, and possibly as a Borg.

This. Minus the part.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

They should've found a way to bring Tasha Yar back and on Voyager, and possibly as a Borg.

This. Minus the part.

How in the world would they have managed that?

 

[tomalak301]

Was her photographic memory ever mentioned on the show? I can't recall...

What was the early first season episode where Kes was like "I've finished reading and ready for more" and then she said she was interested in Anatomy? Was that The Cloud? It was that episode where I assumed she had a very good memory and where I did begin to look at her as a nurse, especially as she began to really show it in late season 3.

 

[Guy Gardener]

They should've found a way to bring Tasha Yar back and on Voyager, and possibly as a Borg.

This. Minus the part.

How in the world would they have managed that?

the Hirogen empire spanned to the edge of both Romulan ad Federation Space, insofar as they felt at home while still connected to that communication network and the Romulans had to have been doing SOMETHING for a hundred years during their so called "isolation period" where they didn't say even "Boo" to the feddies... Why not standing hard against the Hirogen menace? There after during the continued enmity the Hirogen took a chance to acquire Klingon prey from a Romulan Prison planet interrupting Alternate Tasha's execution for trying to run away with Baby Sela, ipso facto running away with the pretty blonde as an extra special prize because they'd never hunted a human before but on their way back towards homespace nearer the Delta Quadrant they site a Borg vessel and attack it.

All hands lost, and/or assimilated including A Tasha Yar.

 

[exodus]

Given The Doc his mobile emitter had nothing to do with Kes. It was just because they wanted Picardo to have a more important role. The decision to give The Doctor a mobile emitter was taken long before they decided to kick ut Kes.

As a matter of fact, in "Future's End, part 2", The Doctor states that Kes's role as a nurse will be more important when The Doctor was allowed to move around more because someone had to be in sickbay when The Doctor was out on some mission or adventure. A reverse situation to when Kes was the one sent out on emergency missions.

By the time "Future End" aired on TV, B&B were already creating and doing try outs for Seven Of Nine. They had already made the decision long before that to let Harry or Kes go. None of these decisions and the acts of hiring new employment happen over night. Not to mention being custom fitting for a Borg uniform & her famous catsuit. All that take ton of preperation.

Yes, the Doc. does say Kes' role would increase but we the audience saw the opposite. After he got the emitter, her role decreased. Even her lines became less & less frequent to the point all she said after a while was "Yes, Doctor." and nothing more. They were making it very easy to phase her out.


Guy: The Hirogen didn't have an empire. They were nomadic and even then barely travelled in groups, unless the prey was a worthy challenge. From what was explained in "The Killing Game", it's questionable if they still even have a home planet. Besides, the Hirogen are no match against the Romulans.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

I think the Hirogen could have taken the Romulans if they picked them off one ship at a time.

 

[exodus]

I think the Hirogen could have taken the Romulans if they picked them off one ship at a time.

The reason I doubt it, is because Starfleet just barely holds their own against the Romulans. I can't see the Hirogen going toe to toe with a Warbird. Hand to hand combat, is a different story....

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

I think the Hirogen could have taken the Romulans if they picked them off one ship at a time.

The reason I doubt it, is because Starfleet just barely holds their own against the Romulans. I can't see the Hirogen going toe to toe with a Warbird. Hand to hand combat, is a different story....

Fair point

By the time "Future End" aired on TV, B&B were already creating and doing try outs for Seven Of Nine. They had already made the decision long before that to let Harry or Kes go. None of these decisions and the acts of hiring new employment happen over night. Not to mention being custom fitting for a Borg uniform & her famous catsuit. All that take ton of preperation.

Yes, the Doc. does say Kes' role would increase but we the audience saw the opposite. After he got the emitter, her role decreased. Even her lines became less & less frequent to the point all she said after a while was "Yes, Doctor." and nothing more. They were making it very easy to phase her out.

Also valid. Kes's role kept diminishing. By the time "Scorpion" came around, she pretty much had one liners. Her scene in sickbay saving Seven, with Tuvok and the meditation, and with Janeway saying good bye was more interaction than she'd had in the past half a season (or more).

They were clearly building to nix one of them (Kes or Kim).

 

[Praxius]

Probably because they never showed the skills she learned in action. Not only did we always see the Doc. working but he would explain what he had to do even while doing it. Giving the Doc. his mobile emitter was a sure sign they were starting to write her out.

Perhaps. As I saw it, it was more of a way to allow further development of the Doctor character. I imagine there was only so many stories one could write about the doctor that involved him being confined to sickbay the entire time (or the holodeck) Especially for seven whole seasons.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Probably because they never showed the skills she learned in action. Not only did we always see the Doc. working but he would explain what he had to do even while doing it. Giving the Doc. his mobile emitter was a sure sign they were starting to write her out.

Perhaps. As I saw it, it was more of a way to allow further development of the Doctor character. I imagine there was only so many stories one could write about the doctor that involved him being confined to sickbay the entire time (or the holodeck) Especially for seven whole seasons.

In my day dreams of how Voyager could be more interesting, I always thought it would have been neat to try and create an android to place his program in. That would have taken some serious story arch developing stuff.

 

[exodus]

Probably because they never showed the skills she learned in action. Not only did we always see the Doc. working but he would explain what he had to do even while doing it. Giving the Doc. his mobile emitter was a sure sign they were starting to write her out.

Perhaps. As I saw it, it was more of a way to allow further development of the Doctor character. I imagine there was only so many stories one could write about the doctor that involved him being confined to sickbay the entire time (or the holodeck) Especially for seven whole seasons.

I don't think anybody expected him to be trapped there seven whole seasons.

 

[Praxius]

I guess you are referring to the powers she ashowed up in "The Gift".

If they hadn't decided to dump the character some time between seasons 3 and 4 or in the beginning of season 4, then she would never have got such ridiculous powers. They were only the excuse to have her leave the ship. If Kes had stayed, she would have been basically the same as in seasons 1-3.

Perhaps, and it probably was used as the excuse, but since season one, they always hinted her powers would become much greater then Tuvok's mental abilities and have shown some aspects on how powerful she could be in many episodes... logically speaking, it would only make sense that her powers would gradually become stronger and more advanced as she got older.

To just have her character's powers stunted and never get any further then what was shown in the first couple of seasons would seem a bit flawed in the overall storyline.

My suspicion as to why they really cut her off was more so about what to do in the later seasons to make her look old while still being realistic. in the last bit before she did take off, they tried to make her look older by changing her hair to a more "Mature" style, though it didn't really work.

I dunno.... There's all sorts of possible reasons why they cut her character off.... popularity, bad writing, what to do when she got older....

By the time "Future End" aired on TV, B&B were already creating and doing try outs for Seven Of Nine. They had already made the decision long before that to let Harry or Kes go. None of these decisions and the acts of hiring new employment happen over night. Not to mention being custom fitting for a Borg uniform & her famous catsuit. All that take ton of preperation.

They should have given Kim the boot.... one of the most bland, un-interesting characters they had going for them on the show... who was probably the worst with relationships.... almost as bad as Reginald Barclay when it comes to characters.

In my day dreams of how Voyager could be more interesting, I always thought it would have been neat to try and create an android to place his program in. That would have taken some serious story arch developing stuff.

Interesting idea.

 

[exodus]

By the time "Future End" aired on TV, B&B were already creating and doing try outs for Seven Of Nine. They had already made the decision long before that to let Harry or Kes go. None of these decisions and the acts of hiring new employment happen over night. Not to mention being custom fitting for a Borg uniform & her famous catsuit. All that take ton of preperation.

They should have given Kim the boot.... one of the most bland, un-interesting characters they had going for them on the show... who was probably the worst with relationships.... almost as bad as Reginald Barclay when it comes to characters.

Maybe but what Harry lacked in personality, he made up for in inventions. Half the new tech. Voyager created was designed by him. Plus, he was the only one to actually learn Borg. As I keep saying, Voyager needed Engineers. It's folks like Harry that keep the ship repaired and the replicators working.

 

[Pauln6]

I think Harry could have been a recurring guest star though, so could Kes. In many ways I think Star Trek would work better with a smaller core cast and a far wider guest cast so that they could focus on more interesting aspects of different characters in shorter bursts. A few more episodes with Lon Suder, Chell and his fellow Maquis, Vorik, Wildman, the twins etc.

 

[exodus]

I think Harry could have been a recurring guest star though, so could Kes. In many ways I think Star Trek would work better with a smaller core cast and a far wider guest cast so that they could focus on more interesting aspects of different characters in shorter bursts. A few more episodes with Lon Suder, Chell and his fellow Maquis, Vorik, Wildman, the twins etc.

Depending on if the actor and his agent want to sign that type of contract. Seeing as how the following year, Lien left/lost(?) her job working on the "Men in Black" animated series. It sounds like she was leaving acting altogether.