Seven of Kes

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Udat, May 1, 2010.

?

Trade off for Kes for Seven worth it?

  1. Yes absolutely

    45 vote(s)
    54.9%
  2. No

    24 vote(s)
    29.3%
  3. Other

    13 vote(s)
    15.9%
  1. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Probably because they never showed the skills she learned in action. Not only did we always see the Doc. working but he would explain what he had to do even while doing it. Giving the Doc. his mobile emitter was a sure sign they were starting to write her out.


    Piper, I disagree.
    The Doc. never wanted to be human.
    For 7 years he told us he believed being a hologram made him superior to humans.
    He just wanted to be treated as an equal and not be dismissed because he wasn't born of flesh & blood.
    His theme was about civil rights, which transends just being human.
    Odo would have rights under Federation law & he's neither human nor humanoid.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2010
  2. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I guess you are referring to the powers she ashowed up in "The Gift".

    If they hadn't decided to dump the character some time between seasons 3 and 4 or in the beginning of season 4, then she would never have got such ridiculous powers. They were only the excuse to have her leave the ship. If Kes had stayed, she would have been basically the same as in seasons 1-3.
     
  3. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Given The Doc his mobile emitter had nothing to do with Kes. It was just because they wanted Picardo to have a more important role. The decision to give The Doctor a mobile emitter was taken long before they decided to kick ut Kes.

    As a matter of fact, in "Future's End, part 2", The Doctor states that Kes's role as a nurse will be more important when The Doctor was allowed to move around more because someone had to be in sickbay when The Doctor was out on some mission or adventure. A reverse situation to when Kes was the one sent out on emergency missions.

    They were both needed as Voyager's medical personnel.
     
  4. Pemmer Harge

    Pemmer Harge Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yes. Jennifer Lien did a decent job playing Kes, but the writing for that character just wasn't there.
     
  5. Joeman

    Joeman Captain Captain

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    For me, That's pretty much the bottom line. Well said. :bolian:
     
  6. vess

    vess Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    This. Minus the :borg: part.
     
  7. Adm_Hawthorne

    Adm_Hawthorne Admiral Admiral

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    How in the world would they have managed that? :confused:
     
  8. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What was the early first season episode where Kes was like "I've finished reading and ready for more" and then she said she was interested in Anatomy? Was that The Cloud? It was that episode where I assumed she had a very good memory and where I did begin to look at her as a nurse, especially as she began to really show it in late season 3.
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    the Hirogen empire spanned to the edge of both Romulan ad Federation Space, insofar as they felt at home while still connected to that communication network and the Romulans had to have been doing SOMETHING for a hundred years during their so called "isolation period" where they didn't say even "Boo" to the feddies... Why not standing hard against the Hirogen menace? There after during the continued enmity the Hirogen took a chance to acquire Klingon prey from a Romulan Prison planet interrupting Alternate Tasha's execution for trying to run away with Baby Sela, ipso facto running away with the pretty blonde as an extra special prize because they'd never hunted a human before but on their way back towards homespace nearer the Delta Quadrant they site a Borg vessel and attack it.

    All hands lost, and/or assimilated including A Tasha Yar.
     
  10. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    By the time "Future End" aired on TV, B&B were already creating and doing try outs for Seven Of Nine. They had already made the decision long before that to let Harry or Kes go. None of these decisions and the acts of hiring new employment happen over night. Not to mention being custom fitting for a Borg uniform & her famous catsuit. All that take ton of preperation.

    Yes, the Doc. does say Kes' role would increase but we the audience saw the opposite. After he got the emitter, her role decreased. Even her lines became less & less frequent to the point all she said after a while was "Yes, Doctor." and nothing more. They were making it very easy to phase her out.


    Guy: The Hirogen didn't have an empire. They were nomadic and even then barely travelled in groups, unless the prey was a worthy challenge. From what was explained in "The Killing Game", it's questionable if they still even have a home planet. Besides, the Hirogen are no match against the Romulans.
     
  11. Adm_Hawthorne

    Adm_Hawthorne Admiral Admiral

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    I think the Hirogen could have taken the Romulans if they picked them off one ship at a time.
     
  12. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The reason I doubt it, is because Starfleet just barely holds their own against the Romulans. I can't see the Hirogen going toe to toe with a Warbird. Hand to hand combat, is a different story....
     
  13. Adm_Hawthorne

    Adm_Hawthorne Admiral Admiral

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    Fair point

    Also valid. Kes's role kept diminishing. By the time "Scorpion" came around, she pretty much had one liners. Her scene in sickbay saving Seven, with Tuvok and the meditation, and with Janeway saying good bye was more interaction than she'd had in the past half a season (or more).

    They were clearly building to nix one of them (Kes or Kim).
     
  14. Praxius

    Praxius Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Perhaps. As I saw it, it was more of a way to allow further development of the Doctor character. I imagine there was only so many stories one could write about the doctor that involved him being confined to sickbay the entire time (or the holodeck) Especially for seven whole seasons.
     
  15. Adm_Hawthorne

    Adm_Hawthorne Admiral Admiral

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    In my day dreams of how Voyager could be more interesting, I always thought it would have been neat to try and create an android to place his program in. That would have taken some serious story arch developing stuff.
     
  16. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think anybody expected him to be trapped there seven whole seasons.
     
  17. Praxius

    Praxius Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Perhaps, and it probably was used as the excuse, but since season one, they always hinted her powers would become much greater then Tuvok's mental abilities and have shown some aspects on how powerful she could be in many episodes... logically speaking, it would only make sense that her powers would gradually become stronger and more advanced as she got older.

    To just have her character's powers stunted and never get any further then what was shown in the first couple of seasons would seem a bit flawed in the overall storyline.

    My suspicion as to why they really cut her off was more so about what to do in the later seasons to make her look old while still being realistic. in the last bit before she did take off, they tried to make her look older by changing her hair to a more "Mature" style, though it didn't really work.

    I dunno.... There's all sorts of possible reasons why they cut her character off.... popularity, bad writing, what to do when she got older....

    They should have given Kim the boot.... one of the most bland, un-interesting characters they had going for them on the show... who was probably the worst with relationships.... almost as bad as Reginald Barclay when it comes to characters.

    Interesting idea.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2010
  18. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe but what Harry lacked in personality, he made up for in inventions. Half the new tech. Voyager created was designed by him. Plus, he was the only one to actually learn Borg. As I keep saying, Voyager needed Engineers. It's folks like Harry that keep the ship repaired and the replicators working.
     
  19. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think Harry could have been a recurring guest star though, so could Kes. In many ways I think Star Trek would work better with a smaller core cast and a far wider guest cast so that they could focus on more interesting aspects of different characters in shorter bursts. A few more episodes with Lon Suder, Chell and his fellow Maquis, Vorik, Wildman, the twins etc.
     
  20. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Depending on if the actor and his agent want to sign that type of contract. Seeing as how the following year, Lien left/lost(?) her job working on the "Men in Black" animated series. It sounds like she was leaving acting altogether.