Seven of Kes

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Udat, May 1, 2010.

?

Trade off for Kes for Seven worth it?

  1. Yes absolutely

    45 vote(s)
    54.9%
  2. No

    24 vote(s)
    29.3%
  3. Other

    13 vote(s)
    15.9%
  1. Miss Chicken

    Miss Chicken Little three legged cat with attitude Admiral

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    "Fury" was the episode I came closest to liking Kes.
     
  2. Jetfire

    Jetfire Guest

    YES!!!

    I love Seven Of Nine!!! & I adore Jeri Ryan. :D
     
  3. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Kes suffered from a similar problem Troi or Talia Winters in B5 - she possessed abilities that were hugely interesting but could affect too many plots fundamentally so she was either just doing nothing in the background or was the focus of the whole episode once or twice per season. They bigged up her abilities and then forgot about them again, which was very annoying.

    I loved Jennifer Lien (I'm a fan of that voice too) but I don't think Kes should have lived for the entire series because of her limited lifespan. If they wanted to reduce the cast, I would have been happier if they'd developed her abilities gradually as part of a plot arc for the character and at the very least, kept her on board as a recurring character (maybe in 6 episodes spread over the fourth season) at least until after the Year of Hell to maintain some plot consistency.

    One thing I liked about B5 was the way they brought Lyta Alexander in gradually to deal with some of the plot elements that would have been Talia's (the original plan was to have both characters around at the same time but that went south when Andrea Thompson asked to leave to take advantage of more lucrative job offers). Instead of the two episodes we got, they could have featured Kes character in 6 episodes starting with her link to Species 8472, two more to feature her abilities beginning to increase, then her exposure to the chroniton particles should have been the key to escaping the Krenim and then once that was out of the way they could have gone ahead with the final exploding Kes plot.

    Seven was fine but Kes was not allowed to realise her potential and that was very disappointing.
     
  4. Adm_Hawthorne

    Adm_Hawthorne Admiral Admiral

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    For me, it was "Warlord", and she wasn't even Kes for most of that episode. :cardie:
     
  5. crohnie

    crohnie Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Voted other. Kes did get on my nerves sometimes, if not most of the time. But at the same time, I have to be honest with myself, the number of times an episode devolved into Seven and Techno-babble save the day get on my nerves too. So they kind of balance out.

    If Kes stayed, then someone else had to go, from a business point of view. But in a perfect world, I'd want her to stick around for at least a little while without having to kick anyone out.
     
  6. Michael

    Michael Good Bad Influence Moderator

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    I loved Kes! So keep her, ditch Kim and introduce Seven of Nine anyway. :)
     
  7. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yes absolutely.

    They did more with Seven in one ep. than they did with Kes in 3 years.
    They couldn't even create a worthy job for Kes to have either.
    Kim, Seven & Be'lanna all have Engineering skills, which is exactly what a ship like Voyager needed to build stuff to get home.
    It doesn't take serious skill to grow veggies.
     
  8. Adm_Hawthorne

    Adm_Hawthorne Admiral Admiral

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    I would argue it takes serious skills to deal with the Doc's ego, though.
     
  9. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So being a Nurse wasn't a worthy Job, especially on a ship with only one doctor and Paris who was piloting the ship at the time? I'd hate to think what your definition of a worthy job was.
     
  10. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'd think dealing with Tuvok would be worse, the EMH you can always just turn off.
    You know, kinda like when Han & Liea got sick of C-3PO in "Empire".

    Kes really had no personality, I find that more annoying than the Doc.
     
  11. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Tom never did more than apply a band-aid and in 7 years of the show we never saw the Doc. require a nurse ever. We saw him fully capible of doing allot of it(if not all) himself.
    When he needed a nurse in "Latent Image", Kes wasn't anywhere to be seen.
    Some nurse.
    Voyager needed more Engineers, not a nurse.
     
  12. Piper

    Piper Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Absolutely not, I really wish they'd kept Kes. Seven was not a unique character - that search for humanity was already looking tired by VOY's time, and we already had a character doing that on the show with the Doctor. Seven didn't really add anything new to a familiar trope.

    Whereas Kes, with her limited lifespan, was certainly something new and different. She wasn't always the best handled, but that could have changed, and there was far more scope with her character development, especially as her Ocampan powers increased, than we saw.
     
  13. Adm_Hawthorne

    Adm_Hawthorne Admiral Admiral

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    Additionally, Kes was more-or-less the Doc's little sidekick anyway. She wasn't really a nurse. In fact, it always puzzled me how she could possibly learn enough to be a nurse in the short amount of years she was on Voyager. I get that we should 'suppose' she learns super fast since she only lives seven years, but we never really saw that on screen.

    So, I wouldn't even consider her a nurse.
     
  14. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Neither do I.
     
  15. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    She did learn to be a nurse because she was smart and had a photographic memory.

    And she did a good job too.

    Of course they did need a nurse since The Doctor was constantly complaining over the lack of a nurse before Kes got the job. Not to mention that The Doctor was limited to sickbay (before they ruined the character with that emitter) so it was Kes who had to run away and take care of what emergencies there might be.
     
  16. Adm_Hawthorne

    Adm_Hawthorne Admiral Admiral

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    Was her photographic memory ever mentioned on the show? I can't recall...
     
  17. Praxius

    Praxius Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Actually in one of the first episodes in season one, Kes showed she had impressive abilities in absorbing information and remembering things well.... as she even surprised the Doctor when she handed him back things he didn't expect she'd complete so soon. I can't remember exactly which episode it was, but they did squeeze in a little snippet to explain she's a fast learner.

    In regards to the trade-off between Seven and Kes.... I don't see why they couldn't keep both. Keeping one or the other shows that the series could have taken two paths.... with the removal of Kes and moving to Seven, they changed the direction the series was heading to focus more on the Borg.

    If they left Kes in and never adopted Seven into the cast, it would have left some large holes in the plots of future episodes, like many instances where they needed Seven to save their butts against the Borg, etc.

    Also... if they did leave Kes in the series, the series would have been over in 3-4 more episodes. Before Kes did leave, she gave them a "Gift" by tossing them closer to home by a few extra light years.... if she remained in the series, then people here would be begging the question "Why didn't she keep using her abilities over and over until they reached the Alpha quadrant?"

    Which would have ruined all the fun ;)

    But in the end, neither Kes or Seven were my favorite characters, but I still liked each for different reasons and it could have been interesting to see what would have evolved if both remained.
     
  18. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They used the word "Eidetic" instead of photographic.
    She displays it in "Twisted".
     
  19. Adm_Hawthorne

    Adm_Hawthorne Admiral Admiral

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    Ah, thank you :techman:

    I still don't consider her a nurse, however. She just didn't have a real role anywhere on the ship. Heaven help me, Neelix was more needed than she was. :brickwall:
     
  20. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yep, the Doctor commented on it.