Seriously, where are the Klingons??

[Dar70]

Star Trek is under no obligation to copy Star Wars, which came along over a decade later. Don't forget, Star Trek completely and utterly reinvented its look in 1979, so it's disingenuous to pretend there's something wrong with it doing it again. Star Wars has always been a franchise defined by nostalgia and homage to the past, so of course its modern productions now homage the franchise's own past. But Star Trek has always been defined by innovation and looking forward, so its aesthetics advance with the era.

TMP was set 10 years later. So of course it was updated. Star Wars had an updated look in the sequel trilogy. If you look at Star Treks tech lineage after adding Discovery and Picard in there its a complete mess. How do they go from Holo communication in Discovery to none in TOS and TNG to its beginnings in DS9??? Is it that hard for the producers to get these things right??? It should not be. Than they get hurled 1000 years into the future and the tech is still what it was "new pre" TOS and Picard...lmao....its ridiculous. Again i get the all shows have a specific look. But they at least tried. Enterprise does not look more advanced than TOS. Sure the sets are of better quality but that's pretty much it. They have a very industrial cold setting. I still remember the outrage of so many here and elsewhere online about Ents look. Haha. Yet today not so much with discovery....????

I also remember when Voyagers final ep with future janeway and her new future shielding. Many complained about the tech getting too "magical " wth??? No one sees that with doscovery???lol

 

[Lord Garth]

I still remember the outrage of so many here and elsewhere online about Ents look. Haha. Yet today not so much with discovery....????

I also remember when Voyagers final ep with future janeway and her new future shielding. Many complained about the tech getting too "magical " wth??? No one sees that with doscovery???lol

I like DSC, I didn't like ENT. So I gave DSC more leeway. That's the honest answer. I overlook things if I'm enjoying it and tend not to if I don't. I also like DSC better than VOY, so same story.

Most people here will give something they like more leeway, they just won't say it. I'm one of the few people who will.

And TMP was set two-and-a-half years later, not 10. The time that passed between TOS and TMP in-story was different from the amount of time that passed in Real Life. It's even in the dialog. Nothing changes that completely in 2.5 years.

 

[flandry84]

Also dare I say it,TOS is the show that looks like an outlier now.~ducks and covers~

 

[Christopher]

As others above have said though, they're probably just figuring out how they want to design them in PIC and then replicate that going forward.

I don't see why they'd have to. Lower Decks uses (caricatures of) TNG-style alien designs rather than DSC-style, so I don't think there's a single required house style. On the whole, Trek alien designs tend to be left to the discretion of the individual makeup supervisor, even in different productions being made at the same time -- for instance, ST V and VI came out during TNG's run, but used Richard Snell's Klingon design (with smaller cranial plates, smooth noses, and pronounced gender dimorphism) rather than Michael Westmore's (with larger plates, ridged noses, and no dimorphism), as well as using TOS-style smooth-browed Romulans rather than TNG-style ridge-headed ones. Apparently Picard's prosthetic effects are done by Vincent Van Dyke, while Discovery's are by Glenn Hetrick. Whoever's in charge of SNW's prosthetics doesn't seem to have been announced yet, but some of the makeup staff listed on IMDb has also worked on DSC, so it might be Hetrick again.

TMP was set 10 years later. So of course it was updated.

It was set only two and a half years after the end of the 5-year mission, and that's a feeble excuse for redesigning absolutely everything including alien makeups. They redesigned it because they could, because they didn't want a big-budget blockbuster feature film to look the same as a modestly budgeted old TV show.

How do they go from Holo communication in Discovery to none in TOS and TNG to its beginnings in DS9???

The Making of Star Trek, published in 1968 with input from Gene Roddenberry and the show's production staff, asserted that the Enterprise recreation deck did in fact have holographic facilities that could be used for watching immersive movies or lifelike video "letters" from home. So the idea was always there; it just never made it to screen until TAS: "The Practical Joker." Which TNG then ignored when it treated holodecks as a new thing, which was then contradicted in VGR when Janeway said she'd grown up with Flotter & Trevis holoprograms.

Ultimately this is all just make-believe. You can't take the discrepancies in different creators' interpretations too literally. What's disingenuous is pretending that such inconsistencies are unique to the newest production. People hauled out that same ridiculous line about the Kelvin movies and Enterprise, forgetting that every Trek production from TOS onward has been fraught with continuity errors or deliberate retcons. It's just the nature of any long-running fictional franchise from multiple creators.

Also dare I say it,TOS is the show that looks like an outlier now.~ducks and covers~

Exactly. It was the rough draft, the prototype that was refined later on.

 

[Dar70]

I don't see why they'd have to. Lower Decks uses (caricatures of) TNG-style alien designs rather than DSC-style, so I don't think there's a single required house style. On the whole, Trek alien designs tend to be left to the discretion of the individual makeup supervisor, even in different productions being made at the same time -- for instance, ST V and VI came out during TNG's run, but used Richard Snell's Klingon design (with smaller cranial plates, smooth noses, and pronounced gender dimorphism) rather than Michael Westmore's (with larger plates, ridged noses, and no dimorphism), as well as using TOS-style smooth-browed Romulans rather than TNG-style ridge-headed ones. Apparently Picard's prosthetic effects are done by Vincent Van Dyke, while Discovery's are by Glenn Hetrick. Whoever's in charge of SNW's prosthetics doesn't seem to have been announced yet, but some of the makeup staff listed on IMDb has also worked on DSC, so it might be Hetrick again.




It was set only two and a half years after the end of the 5-year mission, and that's a feeble excuse for redesigning absolutely everything including alien makeups. They redesigned it because they could, because they didn't want a big-budget blockbuster feature film to look the same as a modestly budgeted old TV show.




The Making of Star Trek, published in 1968 with input from Gene Roddenberry and the show's production staff, asserted that the Enterprise recreation deck did in fact have holographic facilities that could be used for watching immersive movies or lifelike video "letters" from home. So the idea was always there; it just never made it to screen until TAS: "The Practical Joker." Which TNG then ignored when it treated holodecks as a new thing, which was then contradicted in VGR when Janeway said she'd grown up with Flotter & Trevis holoprograms.

Ultimately this is all just make-believe. You can't take the discrepancies in different creators' interpretations too literally. What's disingenuous is pretending that such inconsistencies are unique to the newest production. People hauled out that same ridiculous line about the Kelvin movies and Enterprise, forgetting that every Trek production from TOS onward has been fraught with continuity errors or deliberate retcons. It's just the nature of any long-running fictional franchise from multiple creators.




Exactly. It was the rough draft, the prototype that was refined later on.

Right it was a few years later. (But I dont remember it being stated. Just that kirk was at a desk for a few years) But still it was a believable upgrade. A local store of mine went through a remodel. They update about every 10 years. It looks COMPLETELY different inside. Doesnt look anything like it did last year, inside or out. Just has the same basic footprint before remodel.(and maybe some back room storage areas untouched) Everything was updated including the workers uniforms. So YES things can look vastly different after 2 or 3 years regarding structures and uniforms. The enterprise in TMP was basically like a retail store update. So I don't see the issue with it. Again Discovery initially was in the Past of Trek not 1000 years in the future. But apparently it was 1000 years advanced already..lol...

As for the Klingons. Yup TMP updated them with the ridges. It was tweaked throughout the other series and movies but remained largely the same and than we got a nice little explanation in ENTERPRISE ....than Discovery totally changes their looks and home world aesthetics which look like something out of Asgard......they did attempt at a fix season 2. But the whole no hair thing and ridiculous reason they gave for it cannot be excused. Especially since Klingons have been at War several times and never completely shaved their heads in any of the shows/movies except for Chang. (He had a normal shaped head also not the weird shaped heads in discovery....lol)

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I want it to turn out that the Klingons have had a Surak-style awakening and become a society of spiritual pacifists. We're eight centuries past where Trek has been before, but so far the cultural changes we've seen have been minor at best. Let's see some more radical transformations.

Or even worse....

 

[fireproof78]

was tweaked throughout the other series and movies but remained largely the same and

It did not.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Isn't it weird that all this time in the 32nd century, no mention has been made what the state of the Klingon Empire is at this point?? Either the producers just don't what to do with them, or... they are saving them for a reappearance down the line... Could it be that the anomaly is a Klingon weapon of sorts..??

They're definitely saving them. And I'm expecting what Christopher said, that they'll have completely transformed to pacifists or something.

 

[Dar70]

It did not.

Sure it did. Discovery was the largest departure...shaved heads that shaped like the Alien Queens...lol..

 

[fireproof78]

Sure it did. Discovery was the largest departure...shaved heads that shapec like the Alien Queens...lol..

L9oked like Klingons to me. More than TMP.

 

[flandry84]

Or a new Klingon dark age where the ‘enlightened’ times of Martok have resulted in a huge backlash.
Make Kronos great again.

 

[Christopher]

Or a new Klingon dark age where the ‘enlightened’ times of Martok have resulted in a huge backlash.
Make Kronos great again.

I could buy that 50 or 100 years later, but 800 years later? Martok would be as far in the past as King John and Genghis Khan are from us.

 

[Tuskin38]

than we got a nice little explanation in ENTERPRISE

Completely unnecessary explanation. The ridges were a retcon, it didn't need to be explained.

 

[Dar70]

Completely unnecessary explanation. The ridges were a retcon, it didn't need to be explained.

It was a good two story arc for enterprise. It ended years of fan speculation on the subject. Only to have Discovery throw a wrench in there....

 

[JoaquinSlowly]

The TMP change went unexplained for over 2 decades and there was no problem, it didn’t ruin or undo TOS Klingons, it didn’t really do anything other than generate fan speculation.

Frankly, Discovery changing it again is in keeping with Star Trek tradition, and even treating Enterprise’s Augment Virus explanation retcon as precedent setting an expectation, we shouldn’t be getting a story justifying it until sometime around 2041.

 

[The Wormhole]

Re-posting what I said in the last "where are the Klingons in the 32nd century?" thread:

Fans during seasons 1 and 2: "Oh, I am so sick of the Klingons. They are not the be all and end all of the Star Trek universe. Give the other aliens representation or introduce someone new, FFS"
Fans during season 3: "Where is my General Martok? Where is my Honor song? Where is my bat'leth duel? Where have all the Klingons gone?"

 

[JoaquinSlowly]

Re-posting what I said in the last "where are the Klingons in the 32nd century?" thread:

Now I’m going to have Peter, Paul & Mary in my head singing:

“♫Where have all the Klingons gone?♫
♫Long time passing♫”

 

[F. King Daniel]

Of course they may have picked a fight and lost in the past 900 years, and be as plentiful as Guinan's people in Next Gen's era.

 

[jackoverfull]

Personally, I like that there are no Klingons. There is no need for them to appear.

Me too. I don’t feel any need of seeing them again anytime soon.


But, as always, if it’s well done I’m all for it.

I wouldn't be surprised if the smooth-headed Klingons turn up in SNW somehow. I get the impression they really want to make the show look closer to TOS

As always, as long as they do it well.

Also dare I say it,TOS is the show that looks like an outlier now.~ducks and covers~

i’ve been saying it for decades. And TOS is my favorite series (for the stories, not for the looks).

 

[Tuskin38]

It was a good two story arc for enterprise. It ended years of fan speculation on the subject. Only to have Discovery throw a wrench in there....

Good story, completely unnecessary.