That's funny. I swear I remember JMS saying something about that it wasn't just the final episode. It would explain certain things, such as the voiceover narrations we hear at the beginning of every episode. And also the inconsistent rank system.
Series Finale
- Thread starter Admiral Jean-Luc Picard
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That's funny. I swear I remember JMS saying something about that it wasn't just the final episode. It would explain certain things, such as the voiceover narrations we hear at the beginning of every episode. And also the inconsistent rank system.
I had no problem with Riker and Troi being in the finale. I had a problem with the holodeck angle, which worked to make the whole series feel hollow. (Pardon the unintended pun.) The crossover should have been the two of them aboard the Titan, with both ships either in Captain Archer's time or Captain Riker's, and it should have been the payoff to all the Temporal Cold War stuff. And Chef should have been shown, played by Shatner, but as a much different character with no reference to Kirk at all.
As an aside, I think Trip's death as we saw it was meant to be a style homage to the end of "Stand By Me". But dumb, and terribly done, to the point of not being even close to worthy of the character death.
As an aside, I think Trip's death as we saw it was meant to be a style homage to the end of "Stand By Me". But dumb, and terribly done, to the point of not being even close to worthy of the character death.
What in the world? Today's featured article on Wikipedia is the article for... TATV.
I know, I know... it's the quality of the article, not the quality of the article's subject, but still...
Tatv is still a bad series Finale all these years later.
I don't get the hate for "Endgame", other than Chakotay/Seven (thank god for ST: Picard having moved her on) I thought it was an enjoyable finale.
I agree. I mean, it made me hate Janeway (NOT Mulgrew, whom I think is an excellent actress) even more than I already did. But that's a feature of the finale, not a bug, honestly.
I could go into it...at length...but this is the ENT forum, not the VOY forum.
Personally, I had wished it was a feature length episode, that way they could put some flashbacks in from the intervening years, the Trip situation drops it in rating significantly. But, in my head canon, the continuation in the novelverse is the primary canon. Just because the Trek Novels mean a lot to me.
They could have had it be the follow up of the Demons/Terra Prime arc - an unofficial part three set years later - replacing the criminals that kidnapped Talla with the last remaining members of Terra Prime.
They could have it start with the Federation founding ceremony, and then go on the Shran mission after.
They could have had them playing water polo all day for the entire episode.
They could have had them deal with the Temporal Cold War and the Suliban one last time.
And if they needed the holodeck story, then let it be done with Sulu, or Miral Paris, or Daniels, or someone else.
There’s no point in mulling what could have been. As said in another thread before, there are a million ways to look at what would be the best way to end the show.
I will say though, at least it has everyone still talking about the show after all these years.
I don’t get it either, it was a decent finale. Wrapped up everything that it needed to.
They could have it start with the Federation founding ceremony, and then go on the Shran mission after.
They could have had them playing water polo all day for the entire episode.
They could have had them deal with the Temporal Cold War and the Suliban one last time.
And if they needed the holodeck story, then let it be done with Sulu, or Miral Paris, or Daniels, or someone else.
There’s no point in mulling what could have been. As said in another thread before, there are a million ways to look at what would be the best way to end the show.
I will say though, at least it has everyone still talking about the show after all these years.
I don’t get it either, it was a decent finale. Wrapped up everything that it needed to.
Absolutely right. Anything you wanna know about what JMS had to say regarding that episode is easily read here:
http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/guide/088.html
It was all a look at people in the future looking back. An episode hastily filmed because they needed to put the final episode of year four, which was the series finale, back to the end of year five when TNT gave them their reprieve.
The one thing I really didn't like was the abrupt ending with zero closure for the crew. All we get is Janeway's line "you'll read it in my report," and the show ends. What happens when they all get back to Earth? Does Janeway reconcile with Mark? What happens with Tom & Belanna? How does 7 of 9 adjust to being home? Do Chakotay and Belanna have to be held accountable for their Maquis activities? Will the Doctor be viewed as more than just an EMH? What happens to the ship and all its future technology? Is Tuvok going to get medical treatment? Does Kim ever get fricking promoted?
The problem was that too much time was spent seeing an alternate future for these characters, but no time at all seeing their actual fates after 7 years.
The biggest issue I have aside from Trip dying is that it was the series finale.
An episode of Riker and Troi re-visiting the NX-01 on the holodeck is fine. It would have been ENT’s version of “Trials and Tribble-ations” or “Flashback”.
Maybe you tweak Rikers motivation and have it pre-Nemesis and be about Riker wanting to know if he’s finally ready to be a Captain or to ask Troi to marry him. Something like that.
Just not as the finale and no killing Trip.
An episode of Riker and Troi re-visiting the NX-01 on the holodeck is fine. It would have been ENT’s version of “Trials and Tribble-ations” or “Flashback”.
Maybe you tweak Rikers motivation and have it pre-Nemesis and be about Riker wanting to know if he’s finally ready to be a Captain or to ask Troi to marry him. Something like that.
Just not as the finale and no killing Trip.
It was okay while it was going on (seriously, a picnic on the floor of Cargo Bay 2 is an "elaborate meal"?). I wouldn't describe it as "enjoyable" after the fact.
Given the number of fanfic stories either continuing it or rewriting it, it clearly did not "wrap up everything it needed to".
The stories go in all sorts of directions, including Janeway getting court-martialed for some of the things she did, like nearly feeding Noah Lessing to the aliens in "Equinox".
BINGO. This is exactly the problem. We should have seen at least a cursory wrapup, even if it was just a bit of narration to say what happened to everyone.
Oh, and to stay on topic: I've been watching a bit of Enterprise now and then (episodes are shown here on Fridays), and now I understand what a repugnant series finale that was. The two most boring TNG characters' intrusion into what should have been the Enterprise crew's achievement and celebration of same... FFS. And I say this as someone who doesn't even particularly like this series.
Okay, how would have "Zero Hour" fared if it was a series finale then, if they disregarded travelling back to WW2 and returned home with a fleet of ships to greet them instead? Would it have been a better finale for ENT as a whole, and how would the series have been remembered in the absence of S4 happening?
I don't remember, was Enterprise officially renewed when "Zero Hour" was in production? My gut says "no" because I was shocked they went with a cliffhanger. One of my biggest TV bugbears are shows on the bubble that insist on cliffhangers for their season finales. Some producers actually go on record as saying "this will force the network into a renewal" which doesn't f'n work. Too many shows I really enjoyed ended without resolution, such as"Nowhere Man," "Alphas," "The Fugitive" (2000-2001), the "V" remake (which I didn't actually "enjoy" but I was very interested in seeing how certain characters dealt with the cataclysmic turns in the finale), "Earth 2" and so on. Leaving Enterprise in that "look SPACE NAZIS!" finale would have been a greater disservice that fans would be bitching about to this day - probably worse than what we were given. As poorly as the actual finale was received, at least it was a finale.
Having said that, I do also hate finales that split up and/or kill off charaters. DS9 was heartbreaking, but nothing ripped my soul out as much as Babylon 5 - even though those were beautiful tears. And plenty of stuff could happen between the last two episodes.
Having said that, I do also hate finales that split up and/or kill off charaters. DS9 was heartbreaking, but nothing ripped my soul out as much as Babylon 5 - even though those were beautiful tears. And plenty of stuff could happen between the last two episodes.
They shouldn't have been afraid to wreck continuity, and gone ahead and done something really cool and mind-blowing. "Star Trek: Nemesis" had been released 3 years prior, and it was pretty clear there would be no more TOS or TNG movies. If they wanted to have Riker and Troi, have the Titan come back as part of the effects of the Temporal Cold War, upgrade the Enterprise NX-01 to fight right along beside them in some big final battle, and then just stayed because the timeline was wrecked, anyway. There'd be no questions about why Star Trek (2009) or Discovery look more futuristic than maybe they should, and looking for what happened to Will and Deanna could be a plotline for Picard who would still be in the main timeline, and would also set Discovery nicely apart from Picard.
Or... not. I'm honestly pretty darned happy with where we are with Trek now.
Or... not. I'm honestly pretty darned happy with where we are with Trek now.
Even with those amendments, it still wouldn't have worked, because the Xindi war was not what the show was supposed to be about. It was supposed to be about the formation of the Federation, which the Xindi had nothing to do with.
I do know that three seasons was not enough episodes for CBS to sell the show to syndication, so I recall Moonves greenlighting a fourth season most likely before the season 3 finale (because if not, they would probably have immediately started breaking down the sets.)
Then again, I wouldn't put it past Braga to throw in that silly Space Nazi cliffhanger if he thought the show was going to get cancelled and he wouldn't have to follow up on it.
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