Series Finale

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by Admiral Jean-Luc Picard, Mar 9, 2020.

  1. Admiral Jean-Luc Picard

    Admiral Jean-Luc Picard Commander Red Shirt

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    A lot of hate or dissapointment toward "Thesr Are the Voyages," but what was the series finale actually supposed to be? Looking back, "Terra Prime" could have worked as an actual finale, given the show was cancelled. "These Are the Voyages..." felt less like a finale and more like a goodbye to the 1987-2005 TV run of Star Trek. Yes, lots of people wanted Riker and Troi to be post-Nemesis and on the U.S.S. Titan. However, if they're bringing the show full circle, circling back to TNG itself makes sense.

    Gotham had a double ending similar to Enterprise. The second to last episode resolved the Season 5 arc. The actual finale was a "ten years later..." story, not unlike Enterprise's finale being six years later, but from the Ent-D holodeck with Riker and Troi looking back.

    I like the idea of a double ending, and I liked the finale being a TNG crossover.

    How would you have reworked the finale? If it had to be six years later and a TNG crossover, how would you have done it differently where people actually liked it?

    Yes, there may be other finale threads. This is less about the actual finale, and mpre the idea of a series finale without being too wildly different from the finished product we got.
     
  2. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I've mentioned this idea before, but I'll bring it up again. The idea of people from the future observing past events via a holodeck recreation is actually a pretty inventive idea, per se. But it didn't work in this instance for three reasons: The focus was more on the observers than the people being observed, the episode was shoehorned into a TNG episode that had nothing to do with the overall story, and the idea was used for the series finale when it would have worked better as just a standalone mid-season episode.

    Trying to equate it with an episode of TNG was totally the wrong way to go, especially since there was a much more logical way to bridge TNG and ENT that would have brought true closure to both eras, in an attempt to go 'full circle,' as you say.

    Now if the holodeck recreation thing had to be the formula, and if Riker & Troi had to be in it, then this would be my idea: TATV would take place a few years post-Nemesis (to coincide with the actual time between Nemesis and TATV), with the Enterprise-E in orbit of Romulus as a peace envoy (Riker having served as captain of the Titan for only a few years before being offered command of the Enterprise once Picard was promoted to Admiral, to link the two shows together that way). Riker and Troi meet with the new Romulan leaders and are shocked to learn about the remains of the old Earth ship Enterprise lost during the Earth-Romulan Wars, including a 'black box' that recorded the ship's final moments. Riker & Troi are able to integrate the black box with the Enterprise-E's holodeck so that it will create an authentic visual representation of the NX-01 crew. Riker, Troi and the Romulans observe (but do not take part in) the recreation, and learn that the survivors of the Enterprise integrated into Romulan society and that there are Romulan descendants of the crew alive today who have human blood running through their veins. This revelation is the first step toward lasting peace between the Romulan Empire and the Federation.

    That's the synopsis. I was tempted to write a full script for it, but later realized that it would just be a waste of time.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
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  3. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commander Red Shirt

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    Part of the problem with TATV is that its actually fine as a concept. Remove the holodeck aspects for Archer’s conversation with Chef, Archer’s speech, and explain Shran’s “death” a bit, and it’s a decent finale. It all boils down to how the episode was executed.

    If they were going to have be a holodeck episode as the series finale, there were only a few good ways of going about it:

    A) Have Troi and Riker take a look at Riker’s Canadian ancestor (Chef) on the final days of the NX-01 while Riker is the Captain of the Titan.

    B) Have Tasha Yar be the one using the program instead of Riker & Troi. Basically, establishing that she was the 22nd century history buff as very late character development for her. That way, any viewer that wonders why we never heard of this era within the series (TNG/DS9/VOY), can also remember that she died in S1 of TNG and put 2 and 2 together. Could have still kept Riker’s Troi’s and Data’s voices in as cameos, and the three Enterprises at the end, too.

    Well, does Kirk's appearance in Generation's count as a TNG link. Since there's another way of going about it:

    C) have a young James Kirk and Grandpa Kirk (played by William Shatner) use the program in the recreation room early on during the Captain April's inaugural 5-year mission on the USS Enterprise, and introduce George Kirk as Captain April's first officer to the audience. Not only does it call back to the tagline of the series of Archer being James Kirk's hero, but it also works as a lead in to The Cage and TOS.

    Otherwise, just do what was suggested in the above post from the outset.
     
  4. Yanks

    Yanks Commodore Commodore

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    If they would have just come out and said Terra Prime was the finale, TATV wouldn't have received so much hate.
     
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  5. JesterFace

    JesterFace Commodore Commodore

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    Losing a main character in the final episode is not cool.
    Also, I don't revisit TNG's 'The Pegasus' that often but it's silly that when you watch that episode you might start to think what Riker is up to in the holodeck.

    It's been a long time since I last visited this episode.
    Most likely it'll stay that way for a long time.
     
  6. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I would have been okay with the concept of Trip dying in the final episode, but the execution was...well, just that, an execution. And a poor one, at that.
     
  7. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The problem with this is that the focus is still on ancillary characters that really have nothing to do with the characters from ENT. The show is about Archer, Trip, T'Pol, Reed, Hoshi, Phlox and Mayweather, not about Chef or Tasha Yar.

    Not to mention, just how would you explain Tasha Yar looking 17 years older than when she died?

    The thing is, Terra Prime really isn't all that great of a series finale either. People just point it out because it was better than TATV, and took place right before it. But it's not a true finale to the show.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
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  8. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    On the subject of finales, I was really hoping series following DS9 would follow its lead, though not necessarily to the point of doing a several episode arc. It was disappointing to me that neither VOY nor ENT seemed to take heed.
     
  9. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's because, unlike DS9, the people in charge of those other two series just wanted them to quickly end.
     
  10. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commander Red Shirt

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    Chef was mentioned several times throughout the series, and was briefly seen during the Catwalk. It just seems to me that an actual ancestor of Riker would make sense here to have a connection to the TNG era, instead of Riker playing chef in the holodeck. And would reveal the identity of Chef in the process. Seeing the main characters talking to Chef like he's the counselor makes sense. Seeing Shran and Talla talk to Chef would have made sense as well.

    Tasha Yar…there were no questions in regard to Riker and Troi reprising their roles for an episode 10 years earlier, was there? At least it would allow for insight into Tasha's character had she lived. It could have taken place shortly before the Farpoint mission.
     
  11. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Your choices simply don’t make sense to me in the context of how they would make TATV better. In both instances, they are still taking the focus away from the primary characters and putting the focus on people the ENT audience really doesn’t care about. And they do nothing to change how the hologram NX-01 crew were portrayed, nor change Trip’s stupid death scene. YMMV.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
  12. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commander Red Shirt

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    The purpose of showing Chef is to show how he helps the crew in the absence of a ship’s counselor. It’s a tightly knit ship, so they are bound to be really close to each other and help each other out. You have to remember that this series is a far more human show, since this time period is the closest to us, which makes it more relatable. So if Chef is talking to Reed about being related to Colonel Green or T’Pol with the fact that her father is a Romulan (just to use a couple of unused ENT ideas as examples), or Mayweather had a significant disagreement with Archer that led to him to leave and return to the Horizon during the Romulan War, and how they helped them through it, you're showing the relationships amongst the crew your making the finale about the ENT crew still.

    I am of the opinion that if the Riker and Troi scenes were removed for scenes relating to the ENT cast and instead:

    · filled in the blanks as to what happened after “Terra Prime” (using Season 5 ideas like a Stratos visit, the Kziniti, Tan Ru, first contact with the Trill, a trip to Denobula, Shran serving on the NX-01 and his “death”, Suliban & Future Guy, what happened with the NX-02 and other NX ships, showed a schematic of the NX refit, Attack on Starbase One, Battle of Cheron, maybe even a water polo game that the crew had),

    · showed the MACOs actually trying to defend the ship when the NX-01 was boarded,

    · showed Archer’s speech, which only needed to be a minute long in reality,

    · and maybe acknowledge that Trip is being looked after at a medical facility and T'Pol is on her way to see him instead of listening to the speech,

    the episode wouldn’t be so terrible. It’s would average at least instead. Instead, Berman and Braga shoehorned Riker and Troi and the TNG episode "The Pegasus" into the finale. Much like how they shoehorned another Temporal Cold War story with Vosk & the Na’khul in the S3 Finale “Zero Hour” when there was no guarantee that ENT was going to be renewed at that time either.

    That’s the real failing of TATV; it was treated like it was a season finale instead of a series finale. A series finale should not create confusion or more questions. It should wrap the story up in a sensible way, preferable in the best way possible.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2020
  13. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I've watched this episode Once.. and completly mind wiped myself that it occured.. Worst Trek Episode Evaa!

    Saying that.. I like @Dukhat idea, with Riker and troi just spectators, not involved.. But not having Archer at the founding of the federation giving a speech would have been meh.. However, on the Destiny book series, this kind of happened with the NX-02 crew, not with the romulans but with the borg.
    I REALLY wish they were allowed to do atleast a few TV movies or something to have closure, maybe show the romulan war.. ( Yes.. I REALLY REALLY want a Romulan war series/movies! )
     
  14. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No issue with the concept of it, but I found the execution to be dreadful. Season 3 and 4 character development was wiped out (especially the Trip/T'pol thing). It was like everyone was their season 1-2 selves again. And then Trip's death comes across like a suicide since there's so much weirdly wrong with it (why is the ship empty? Why is suicide his first and only plan?). Making it worse, 2 scenes later it's like it never happened.

    Gotham's finale didn't work for me either but for different reasons. It felt like they were shoehorning their versions of the characters into the established comic book roles (even making Penguin fat!) rather than letting them evolve naturally.
     
  15. CommanderTrip

    CommanderTrip Captain Captain

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    This.

    I believe when they came up with the concept of this episode, it was with the best of intentions. Nemesis tanked at the boxoffice, and apparently UPN had been trying to cancel Enterprise since Season 3. The showrunners knew they weren't coming back, the franchise was fatigued and it was time to say goodbye (for a while.)

    TPTB wanted to craft what they felt would be a "love letter" to the fans that would encompass ENT and allow us to revisit some of our favorite characters on the ENT D. I remember being excited reading about the episode on these forums prior to it's broadcast. And then when it was broadcast, we all watched and it ended up being very "meh" for many of the valid reasons listed in above.

    On paper, it sounded like a great idea and a great way to say goodbye to Berman-era Trek as we knew it. However, it was executed in such a way that the end result was perceived quite poorly.

    And killing off Trip in the final episode just to kill someone off to somehow add some dramatic weight to it all..... Nope, that didn't work at all.
     
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  16. Danny99

    Danny99 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I also remember reading somewhere that they learned they were being officially cancelled while they were shooting the second part of In A Mirror, Darkly, so there really wasn't time to lay out an end game.

    The execution of the finale was extremely poor. The Pegasus didn't need a follow-up, especially one like this. Riker was tortured enough during that episode and trying to shoehorn these holodeck scenes into that episode doesn't work. And while I know some of us hate bringing up canon, it bothered me that both Frakes and Sirtis obviously looked different than they did in the TNG era.

    Even removing the TNG stuff, the ENT stuff doesn't stand up well either. Fighting the pirates on Rigel felt so season 1 and 2 and Trip's whole choice to basically commit suicide was silly on a ship with MACO's and a full security force.

    Given the parameters of it having to tie into the TNG era, I really do like Dukhat's script. Embrace the fact that Frakes and Sirtis were older and make their story support the ENT story.
     
  17. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    To this day, I really have no idea what possessed Berman & Braga to use "The Pegasus" as the framing story. Braga literally must have been high. I get why they wanted the Enterprise-D: they simply had a hard-on for the days of TNG. But if they wanted to use the TNG timeframe, why not just create a 'lost episode' that dealt with Riker just doing holodeck research without the unnecessary shoehorn of an episode where he's in huge trouble for keeping mum about a cloaking device and yet has the time to leisurely make holodeck romps?

    There was a high-budget TNG porn parody which was basically a 'lost episode' where the crew find the older Tasha Yar from the "Yesterday's Enterprise" war timeline still alive and in stasis. Turns out that Tasha didn't die like Sela said, but that Sela was using her mother as bait to capture the Enterprise. It's pathetic that a freaking porno movie had a more imaginative plot than TATV.
     
  18. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Remember that, at one point, William Shatner was invited to play Chef. Not in the finale, but earlier. The idea of having someone famous role-play an oft-mentioned offscreen character made its way into the finale.

    As a Shran fan, I was thrilled to see him again, and with a daughter. But his jewel-thief future came out of left field. For me, squeezing Riker and Troi into brand new scenes between old scenes of "The Pegasus" was the most bewildering. Riker having last-minute pangs about taking on the Titan would have worked so much better, accommodating the actors' physical changes since TNG.

    Yep! That closing monologue, though, was beautiful.

    The in-joke about the "love letter", I think, stemmed from people who had spent four years saying how much they hated ENT and how it supposedly broke with "canon". Now the episode would "allow" those people to pretend that the whole series was a holodeck game.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
  19. Dr. San Guinary

    Dr. San Guinary Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The mere fact that TATV was a holodeck episode doesn't bother me. I mean, it's not like it hasn't been done before...

    Babylon 5 did the same thing. In fact, the ENTIRE SERIES was a kind of holodeck re-creation, done by the Rangers.

    The problem was just that it was BADLY WRITTEN.

    Although the fact that TATV takes place on the holodeck, gives it an easy out, in that we can always claim that it was an inaccurate program.

    Subsequent Trek novels have gone this exact route. TATV, as shown, was intentionally created by Section 31 to fake Trip's death so he could become an operative.
     
  20. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commander Red Shirt

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    That was the common theme I noticed when learning about the production of ENT; that there wasn’t enough time to develop it. That and certain ideas for the show were rejected.

    They could have gone with a vengeful Romulan BoP - unaware the Romulan War is over - in hot pursuit of the NX-01. Or a Kobayashi Maru scenario for the finale. Or blend these two ideas, since Shran had his own craft.

    @Dukhat ’s idea is by far the most interesting though.

    If they wanted to do that, they could have just set it between AGT and Generations.

    That is actually quite creative.

    I do remember hearing something about that. But it fell though.

    If Riker was using the holodeck to bring up both the NX-01 and Ent-D, that would have been good. Maybe bring up the TOS Enterprise too.

    Except for the parts that made an effort fit in with the rest of Star Trek continuity i.e most of S4.