Series Finale

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by Admiral Jean-Luc Picard, Mar 9, 2020.

  1. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Even with those amendments, it still wouldn't have worked, because the Xindi war was not what the show was supposed to be about. It was supposed to be about the formation of the Federation, which the Xindi had nothing to do with.

    I do know that three seasons was not enough episodes for CBS to sell the show to syndication, so I recall Moonves greenlighting a fourth season most likely before the season 3 finale (because if not, they would probably have immediately started breaking down the sets.)

    Then again, I wouldn't put it past Braga to throw in that silly Space Nazi cliffhanger if he thought the show was going to get cancelled and he wouldn't have to follow up on it.
     
  2. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Xindi War may not have been what ENT was supposed to be about, but I found seasons 3-4 ultimately more enjoyable than 1-2. YMMV of course.

    Agreed that ENT ending with "Zero Hour" as the final episode would have been disappointing no matter how one sliced it...though if it had ended with Earth's allies (Vulcans, Andorians, etc) arriving with a fleet to stop Earth from being destroyed, that might have been compelling.
     
  3. Mr. Spook

    Mr. Spook Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Was “not enough episodes for syndication” really a thing by then? I mean, even at 3 seasons they only had 3 episodes fewer than the original series and nobody had trouble running it.
     
  4. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commander Red Shirt

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    True. It wasn’t about that.

    However, if the series ended there, they could have just rebooted with Captain Hernandez and the Columbia, with her building off of what Archer and his crew had done. Bridging the events of ENT into the formation of the Federation. Could have even embraced the Columbia class idea earlier.

    The NX-01 would just get written off as MIA after having never returned home from the Xindi mission. And even works as a logical explanation as to why NX-01 not referred to in later series.

    Its kind of interesting to think about at least.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  5. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I know I seem like I'm always shooting your ideas down, and that's not my intention. It's just that I'm a realist, and I simply don't see CBS/UPN/whoever doing anything like that. By the time the third season ended, UPN had had enough of the show and stopped caring about it. Which actually turned out to be a good thing, because they stopped trying to assert their creative control over the show and just let the showrunners do what they wanted. Luckily we got a guy like Manny Coto who literally took the show in a new direction, which was to return to the show's original premise: the formation of the Federation. Unfortunately it was too little, too late. But if the show was to only have one last season, I'm glad that Coto did what he did (with the exception of TATV, but that was Berman & Braga, not Coto.)
     
  6. Tim Zombieson

    Tim Zombieson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    TOS got a sweetheart deal in a bygone age, but by the mid-2000s it was pretty much set in stone that you needed a certain number of episodes (generally 100 at that time, it was later lowered and is now pretty much ignored). Enterprise received only 98 episodes, because they cut down the order for episodes for Season 4 at the last minute and it was a slap in the face. Still, by the power of the Star Trek name and high demand to "complete the franchise", it got its syndication purchase eventually.
     
  7. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commander Red Shirt

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    I don’t take it personally. I can’t expect all ideas to be accepted all of the time. Not all ideas are meant to be accepted anyways. Its nice to just bounce ideas off one another.

    Although an Archer/USS Endeavour/T’Pau/Shran series (1-3 seasons) seems like the easiest and most logical way to get around to get around whatever longstanding issues there are with the entire ENT cast ever reuniting together again, and let them get to complete the full seven season run that they were originally supposed to do with a new group of writers and producers. As well as cover the early Federation era quite nicely.

    Besides it helped to create another new and interesting episode/fanfic idea.

    Considering what I hear happens with the Columbia in the ENT novels – vanishing in the middle of the Romulan War and being lost in the Gamma Quadrant - seeing what would happen where an alternate Hernandez & Columbia that had to take over the role of Archer & Enterprise after they had gone missing during the Xindi mission. When this alternate Hernandez and crew meets with the prime universe ENT crew decades later, they both think that they have found the long missing crew. Only to find that’s not the case as they each have divergent memories of the past decade(s) of historical events unfolding.

    It can’t just be Romulan War ideas all of the time. Star Trek is much more than that.
     
  8. Reanok

    Reanok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If you want to find out what happened to the Columbia and Erika Hernandez and the Columbia crew the Destiny Novels by David Mack tells their story.
     
  9. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^Excellently, I might add.
     
  10. CommanderTrip

    CommanderTrip Captain Captain

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    On the ENT blu rays, Braga admits that TPTB originally planned to end ENT with Season 3. The execs at UPN were not happy when the showrunners threw the space nazi cliff hanger in there. It left UPN with the choice to cancel Star Trek on an unresolved cliffhanger and endure the wrath of trekkies OR renew ENT for a fourth and final season. Considering syndication requirements as well, I think we all know how that played out. Braga also seems to imply the executives calling the shots were younger blood and did not give any craps about Star Trek. After all, they suggested a band-of-the-week performance in the ENT mess hall lol.

    When the show finally ended, I do remember the campaigns to have Netflix try and pick up the show for Season 5 (this was before Netflix produced their own content like the do now) as well as a fan-funded Season 5 on UPN. Read about them all here on the TrekBBS :cool:
     
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  11. Oddish

    Oddish Fleet Captain Red Shirt

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    One thing is certain, regarding the series finale... setting it six years in the future was just stupid.

    No one has aged six years. No gray hair, no wrinkles, no hairstyle changes.
    No one has been promoted. We never see Mayweather make one mistake, and he's still an ensign after 10 years. Ditto with Hoshi, who was arguably the most essential crew member because of her linguistic abilities.
    Like with the holodeck concept, it distances us from the characters and effectively resets all relationships. Instead of seeing Trip and T'Pol coming to terms with Elizabeth's loss and their own relationship, it's distant history.

    Setting it on the holodeck and snuffing Trip made it worse, but even at its core, this episode was a trainwreck.
     
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  12. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commander Red Shirt

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    Setting it six years in the future wasn’t the program. Not making any substantial changes within the timeframe outside of Shran’s life was. Look at the episode “Twilight” in S3 – its set in 2165, and by then Reed’s grown a goatee and is promoted captain to the Intrepid. Sato is ranked lieutenant and has a new hair style. T’Pol has much longer hair. Archer and Trip are visibly grayer. Considering that TATV is supposed to be set in 2161, there’s nothing to hint at that. Just a bridge that supposed to resemble Columbia’s and name patches added to the Starfleet uniforms, T’Pol wearing even more makeup than usual and that’s it. Archer seemed slightly more irritated at T’Pol than usual when he asked her to see Chef, but is that even noteworthy? They had been in space for 10 years by that point, and he was trying to get her to help Chef with the crew’s final meal together, which every other member of the crew was doing. There’s also an Admiral Douglas mentioned in the teaser, who presumably replaced Admiral Gardner at some point. But Starfleet should have lots of admirals anyway, so that’s not noteworthy either.

    And technically there was one promotion - Billy, the guy that told Archer that they were ready to hear his speech. Its not exactly a noticeable thing though and just makes everyone wonder why Reed, Mayweather & Sato were overlooked. Looking at the extra pips added to Archer’s uniform in the final moments of the series, there’s no way they could not have received a promotion of some sort.

    And presumably, if they had not made it a holodeck episode, then they could have reused the damaged NX-01 scenes from S3 to show that they had been in fact battling the Romulans in the gap between the Terra Prime arc and TATV. If DS9 could reuse old battle scenes over and over again, why couldn’t ENT reuse simple flyby scenes of a damaged NX-01?
     
  13. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Reusing stock footage in a finale episode is likely to draw more scrutiny than reusing it in other episodes. As to your claim that DS9 reused battle scenes "over and over again", please provide specific instances. Some reuse occurred, but I wouldn't say it got that bad.
     
  14. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commander Red Shirt

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    There would have been criticism regardless because it was ENT. It was not a particularly beloved series during its initial run. Maybe its different now, but before, it wasn’t even considered Star Trek by some of the fandom.

    Secondly, it would have been believable if the crew had managed to repair the interior of the ship over the course of several months after the Battle of Charon, but left the exterior of the ship alone. All it would have require was Shran boarding and taking note of the extensive damage Enterprise took since the last time he saw them a few years earlier, and a member of the crew responding that the Romulans did a number on the ship during the war, but they survived them. That’s it.

    And DS9 did reuse some battle scenes during the Dominion War. I did not say it was a bad thing either. Just pointing out that there were alternatives to what was done during TATV. It did not have to be an episode based in the holodeck to connect it to the rest of the Star Trek Universe. Just keeping with continuity would have been enough.

    And if they still wanted a holodeck episode, setting it on a Galaxy-class USS Titan was just as acceptable. Might have been better, as they may have been able to include DS9 and Voyager in the final moments of the episode. Seeing the Titan docked at DS9 with the Defiant and Voyager, before the meteor passed and we see the TOS-era Enterprise ship and then the NX-01 flyby would have been just as good as what we got.
     
  15. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If they were going to do a 1 episode series finale, maybe pust it to a 2 parter,
    Year 2245, a news program or documentary, First shots are of the Enterprise 1701 in space dock, showing all the glitz and glamor, huge party for its first flight.
    and have the documentary crew show snippets/flashbacks of what happened with the original Nx Enterprise, the crew being interviewed after the Romulan war, and kind of just monologe/explain what happened in the years, and just use flashbacks, interviews to explain. Then show an older Archer, Trip, and T'pol at the launching of the 1701 commenting on the progress, etc.
     
  16. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commander Red Shirt

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    Sticking with the 2245 theme, they could have had Robert and Sarah April using the recreation room – the precursor to the holodeck - on the USS Enterprise doing sort of historical research on an important mission, as they want to hold a banquet for the remaining survivors of the NX-01 mission in honour of Archer. The writers were already making other aspects of TAS canon, so why not the Aprils and the recreation room?
     
  17. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

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    How would they have been any better than Riker and Troi though?

    Plus there's the issue of having to create all-new sets and costumes for that, as well as casting two new actors to play characters the bulk of the audience likely wouldn't recognize.
     
  18. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commander Red Shirt

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    It would have bridged ENT to TOS/TAS. The Aprils would have actually grown up learning about the stories of the ENT crew, and thus would have the deepest personal connection to them. They would want to research them, interact with them, and simulate their missions since they would be looking up to them as personal heroes. And it would have been fitting if the series finale on ENT involved the first captain of the NCC-1701 interacting with Archer in some capacity, even if it was in holographic form. And seeing the aged NX-01 crew beamed aboard would have helped bring their story to a close.

    Riker and Troi doesn’t make as much sense as the Aprils. Perhaps immediately after the events of “The Pegasus” TATV would make more sense, but not during it. While it does show that Riker did listen to Picard’s advice back in S2 of TNG and brush up on his Earth history, I do not see why he would choose to brush up on it in the middle of the search for the Pegasus. Especially since after TATV ended, he still doesn’t tell Picard right away; he only says something after Picard does research on final mission of the Pegasus. If the writers wanted TATV to be a sequel to the events of “The Pegasus,” then they should have been clearer on that. Although, that would make it even more on a TNG episode than it already was. And further establish that the previous episode was the true finale of ENT.

    The sets would just be the TOS sets. And the recreation room could have been green screened, with the Aprils making references that it could use some improvements, to explain why it was never featured during TOS.

    And they didn’t necessarily have to make new uniforms. They could have just used the TOS or The Cage uniforms. This was all before we knew what Star Trek: Discovery was, remember?

    And if the audience did not know who they were, references could have been made about Pike or Sarek or George Kirk and his son Jim.
     
  19. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    DS9 reused scenes from the Battle of Chin’toka for the series finale. That’s why the São Paulo/Defiant has the same registry number as the original Defiant...because it was the original Defiant in those scenes. I personally felt annoyed because it was blatantly an effort to save budget money even though it was the series finale and the viewing audience deserved better than to see a bunch of stock footage for the final episode.
     
  20. Mr. Spook

    Mr. Spook Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don’t mind reusing some footage to save a few bucks, but the effects they lifted were extremely memorable and easily recognizable. The music from the original episode made the impact even more indelible. Much like the BoP explosion from Star Trek VI being used in Generations. It wasn’t some random model explosion, it was a multi-section destruction which was also the battle climax of the film.