Spoilers Section 31 General Discussion Thread

[James Cole]

On S31 on physical media...

Paramount recently decided to release new movies as 4K/Blu-ray combos only (ie, if you want the Blu-ray and don't own a 4K UHD player, you need to buy the 4K to get a Blu-ray), at least in the US. No word yet if this policy will also apply in, say, the UK. If they are treating S31 as a "movie", then a BD solo release would be unlikely in North America.

Physical media won't be around forever. If something Star Trek were to go out of print early, it would likely be something like S31 or the Short Treks compilation that wouldn't easily be rolled into a wider "complete series" type release. If a Star Trek project was to get the WILLOW / RAISED BY WOLVES treatment and disappeared from a streaming service... S31 might be it.

I'm not a Star Trek completionist to the point that I own everything produced, even if a hate watch, so I'm easily sitting this one out.

But flashforward five years and imagine you can't stream S31 anywhere, and the disc was only produced in such a limited run that it goes for over $200 used. If this would bother you, don't take for granted that it will always be easily available. Don't buy it at full price, but maybe get it when it's on sale for under $20.

 

[I am not Spock]

Kazinsky seems to really know his stuff. Would I be against a Section 31 full series, where they somehow manage to make his character not dead, and explore his potential further? No.
As long as it's executed better than S31 pilot

 

[Dukhat]

Kazinsky may be a great guy, but his character was dull and silly. I'm all for him playing some other character, though.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Bryce and Rhys?

Wouldn't have minded but they were not the focus.

And like Owo and Detmer, they were never part of the main regular cast. Unless your show was DS9, non-main characters were shit out of luck. Especially on a streaming show that has only half or less the amount of episodes Trek used to have on terrestrial broadcasting.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

I'm intrigued as to why the Terrans did a hunger games selection process. Perhaps an heirless leader died of natural causes (a rarity no doubt) and no one could easily take control. Celebrate the Empire by finding the purest youth and if they suck then we'll kill them anyway.

Also makes you wonder about the ruler between Georgiou and Spock and the poor ones who oversaw the Empire's demise at the hands of the KCA now they had a bad day.

 

[The Wormhole]

Bryce and Rhys were like the Travis Mayweather of Disco. Except even poor Travis got a few focus episodes

Travis Mayweather was main cast, Bryce and Rhys were not. Why does this continue to be such a difficult concept for Trek fandom? Stargate fans are never scandalized at the fact that Walter Harriman or Sgt. Siler never got their own episodes.

 

[The Wormhole]

Perhaps an heirless leader died of natural causes (a rarity no doubt) and no one could easily take control.

I figure it's either that or the previous Emperor did die in a coup, though the one who led the coup was also killed, thus leaving no clear successor. I imagine they'd have to go through something similar after Georgiou's defeat and apparent death, with Lorca also killed.

 

[Daedalus]

I'm intrigued as to why the Terrans did a hunger games selection process. Perhaps an heirless leader died of natural causes (a rarity no doubt) and no one could easily take control. Celebrate the Empire by finding the purest youth and if they suck then we'll kill them anyway.

The previous Emperor could've been a complete nutter and mandated it upon his or her death. I wouldn't have thought it was typical.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'm intrigued as to why the Terrans did a hunger games selection process. Perhaps an heirless leader died of natural causes (a rarity no doubt) and no one could easily take control. Celebrate the Empire by finding the purest youth and if they suck then we'll kill them anyway.

Also makes you wonder about the ruler between Georgiou and Spock and the poor ones who oversaw the Empire's demise at the hands of the KCA now they had a bad day.

I really don't buy them having a kid as Emperor, surely it'd be like... a certain country... open only to rich old people.

But when has the mirror universe made any sense?

 

[Detached Nacelle]

The previous Emperor could've been a complete nutter and mandated it upon his or her death. I wouldn't have thought it was typical.

Short of leaving a holographic executor that can monitor the situation that'd be hard to enforce since they're dead

 

[Daedalus]

Short of leaving a holographic executor that can monitor the situation that'd be hard to enforce since they're dead

Indoctrination. Those that were closest to the Emperor enforcing their final wish, isn't totally unbelievable.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

Alternatively the previous Emperor was so inept that dissent was brewing so a quadrant wide gameshow was brought in to find the most bloodthirsty pure child there was to entertIn and also reinforce faith and fear in the population

 

[The Wormhole]

I really don't buy them having a kid as Emperor,

Selecting teenagers to be the Emperor actually retroactively addresses an issue I had with Disco's Mirror Universe episodes, specifically how could Tilly be a starship captain at only twenty-one years old? But I guess if people younger than that are eligible to lead the entire Empire, someone commanding a starship in their early twenties isn't so preposterous by comparison.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

They have to be young in a universe full of treachery and deceit - hardly anybody lives long enough to have older leaders. The only way to live long is shut up and keep your head down, hope nobody notices you, and you're not related to anyone powerful that would make you a target, and that you don't stay anywhere too long so that you don't get annihilated as part of a mass killing to make an example.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

Bizarre out there suggestion, bear with me. I recall a novel or short story or perhaps a chicken nugget dream in which Hoshi cloned herself to create an immortal dynasty until the final clone was killed by Spock. Taking inspiration but twisting it a little Hoshi's clones still existed but have died out a little earlier and the Terran games is to literally show the citizenry the Empire is being infused with fresh mighty blood.

I know it's wacky but I am compulsed to headcanon any and every absence

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Travis Mayweather was main cast, Bryce and Rhys were not. Why does this continue to be such a difficult concept for Trek fandom? Stargate fans are never scandalized at the fact that Walter Harriman or Sgt. Siler never got their own episodes.

People don't look at the cast list to determine who they should care about in a story, they look at what's on the screen.

 

[Turtletrekker]

And what did they see on the screen? Glorified extras.

ETA: To me Discovery was always about the "core four". Burnham, Saru, Tilly and Stamets. Everyone else was a supporting character to them. They were Mr Leslie, or O'Brien on TNG, or Rom or Barclay on VOY or Soval on Enterprise. And before anyone says it, yes all those characters, with the exception of Leslie, got more development than the Discovery characters. That comes down to having 10 to 13 episodes instead of 26.

 

[Tuskin38]

*TATV actually did make that one canon.

How?

 

[mswood]

That’s because they spent too much time focusing on Michael Burnham to the detriment of all the other bridge crew minus Saru and Stamets. That’s not the same dynamic at all in SNW. Every character has been given good development (even guest characters like T’Pring) except Ortegas.

Yes but you can say that literally about every single live action Trek series. TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT all feature glorified extras, who have no dialogue but are in many, many episodes. Then we have reocrruing characters that get exceedingly minimal dialogue and no development (see rotating group of characters who replace Wesley on the bridge in TNG). Why is no one bitching that Picard's development prevented numerous extras stationed on the bridge from having development? It's irrational and a massive double standard.

Hell DS9 is the first show to have a higher percentage of primary cast that weren't stationed on the bridge (for them OPS) but no one bitches about the people who are seen in OPS that have literally no developed of any kind.

And SNW has the exact same dynamic. How much development has the bridge officer Mitchell got? Just so you know in the same amount of episodes Detmer is a more rounded and developed character. How about Chief Kyle? How about Chief Jay? In fairness I get more charisma from Mitchell and Kyle but that isn't development.

The shows focus on whomever they have for the primary cast. Not where they are located on the ship or station. Even DS9 the show that managed the largest and best developed cast of characters still had characters that didn't rise above background or bit parts with minor dialogue.

Hell using Discovery while we have fewer characters that are primary characters of the show, it actually is the show that gave the full compliment of people stationed on the bridge more material to work with than any other Trek series. There are fewer bridge stations with people who are literally extras (ie no dialogue of any kind). The vast majority have had at least a bit of dialogue. That is not true of the majority of the rest of Trek.

 

[mswood]

Luminates ratings for the Section 31, for its first full week of release.

282.3 million minutes viewed good enough for 2nd place. Luminate tracks original tv produced films, tv programs on streaming platforms. Not films created for cinemas.

Gives you an idea of how low original produced films for the most part do on a weekly basis. And just so you know for those who are going to compare it to episodic ratings for Trek. You can't.

Luminate differs from Nielsen in that TV shows are put together by seasons. Nielsen bunches data together by the full show.

So for Discover season 6 Nielsen showed ratings lower than 218 million (ie weeks that it didn't track to a high of 282 but thats counting every single episode that Discovery produced that was watched in each specific tracked week). Luminate (which was releasing tracking during that season and forward never listed Discovery meaning by its metrics no week during that season had enough views of episodes only from season 6 to get to the minimum to track. And Comparisons to Nielsen's tracking is also not easy to manage as the week of tracking differs between the two providers.