Spoilers Season 3 Comic-Con reveals

[eschaton]

If the South Asian fellow that Burnham meets is a hologram (which seems likely) and he has been waiting for a "long time" that means there were six stars on the Federation flag since whenever he was waiting. Meaning the Federation may have fallen even further in the meantime.

 

[Jadeb]

That said, I'm liking the idea that this is an alternate future that will be undone at some point. With Daniels' era having pretty much absolute mastery of time travel, they could be working on it even now.

I'm pretty much assuming it will be. I'm curious to see how that will affect my engagement over the course of the season.

This trailer is making me realize how little I remember about TNG and DS9. I'm way more invested in TOS.

 

[SG-17]

Yeah, hopefully this is just an aberrant timeline resulting from Discovery being pulled into the future similar to how Daniels mucked things up when he brought Archer to the 31st century.

Otherwise something ridiculous would have to happen in far less than 100 years to bring about the gigantic and thriving Federation of the proper mid-31st century down to where it is in the early 32nd century.

Would kinda be fun if this is just part of the Temporal Cold War (maybe the Second Temporal Cold War) and Daniels himself shows up.

 

[eschaton]

I'm pretty much assuming it will be. I'm curious to see how that will affect my engagement over the course of the season.

This trailer is making me realize how little I remember about TNG and DS9. I'm way more invested in TOS.

Making this all a future which will eventually be undone is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea.

I mean, you already have a situation where Discovery's adventures over the first two seasons - although they happened - are more or less swept under the rug by Section 31 as "it's classified." If they basically undid whatever they're doing in the 32nd century as well, then in a certain sense the show itself has no legacy within the timeline whatsoever. It also shows that the writers have no idea how to actually build on the world they are creating, and just repeatedly wipe the slate clean and try again with something else.

I still have a strong suspicion though that the show is "on the bubble" in terms of renewal though. I'm not yet predicting that this is the last season, but Kurtzman was pretty final about them never returning to the 23rd century, and we now know production of the Section 31 show is set to begin basically as soon as this season is over. I could see them at minimum putting Discovery on a longer hiatus to allow for space to air Lower Decks and Section 31.

 

[SG-17]

Making this all a future which will eventually be undone is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea.

I mean, you already have a situation where Discovery's adventures over the first two seasons - although they happened - are more or less swept under the rug by Section 31 as "it's classified." If they basically undid whatever they're doing in the 32nd century as well, then in a certain sense the show itself has no legacy within the timeline whatsoever. It also shows that the writers have no idea how to actually build on the world they are creating, and just repeatedly wipe the slate clean and try again with something else.

I still have a strong suspicion though that the show is "on the bubble" in terms of renewal though. I'm not yet predicting that this is the last season, but Kurtzman was pretty final about them never returning to the 23rd century, and we now know production of the Section 31 show is set to begin basically as soon as this season is over. I could see them at minimum putting Discovery on a longer hiatus to allow for space to air Lower Decks and Section 31.

I mean it was their choice to make a prequel and tread on established events and "fill in the blanks" that didn't need to be filled. It would be best for the canon if this gets slapped with a big reset. Also saving the Federation in the future isn't leaving no legacy.

Lets hope they don't do anymore prequels.

 

[F. King Daniel]

the gigantic and thriving Federation of the proper mid-31st century

Since when? The only time we ever visited the 31st century, it was a ruin. Everything else is second hand information. In other words, it could all be lies.

Remember when Daniels implied Earth didn't exist anymore, and then later said Earth was his headquarters?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Lets hope they don't do anymore prequels.

They literally just released one, about Spock's first day on the job.

 

[Nyotarules]

By that argument the parts that aren't "peaceful, loving or understanding" about Star Trek are supposed to be on the Frontier, hence the Western aping. The "civilized" areas are supposed to be utopian and the people from the utopia exploring the frontier are supposed to be moral, upstanding, peace-loving individuals.

The' civilised' areas were never Utopia, TOS never portrayed Earth or the Federation as Utopian or even humans as perfect. The explorers were more than capable of screwing things up in Star Trek even in the TNG era.

 

[eschaton]

I mean it was their choice to make a prequel and tread on established events and "fill in the blanks" that didn't need to be filled. It would be best for the canon if this gets slapped with a big reset. Also saving the Federation in the future isn't leaving no legacy.

Lets hope they don't do anymore prequels.

Prequels are fine. It's just that they made the same mistake Enterprise made - and made it twice - by thinking that you can do a prequel in an established timeline and "go epic" at the same time.

Discovery's desire to "go epic" in general has always confused me, because Trek is often at its best when it tells intimate, character-focused stories, not stories of existential crisis for the Federation/galaxy/multiverse. But if you're going to go big, it's best to limit that to non-prequel scenarios, because if there really was a crisis of such high levels in the past, it's somewhat remarkable that it's never been discussed before onscreen. Plus of course it's a little bit harder to suspend disbelief when we know everything has to be okay for Kirk & Co ten years later.

 

[SG-17]

Since when? The only time we ever visited the 31st century, it was a ruin. Everything else is second hand information. In other words, it could all be lies.

Remember when Daniels implied Earth didn't exist anymore, and then later said Earth was his headquarters?

Daniels said that Earth didn't exist as Archer knew it. What that exactly implies is unknown, but from Daniels claiming to be "more or less" human I imagine it means that Earth has become heavily inter-meshed with non-human species as the capital of the Federation (as we see it being well on its way in the 24th century shows).

Plus the entire purpose of Daniels and the other Temporal Agent's existence is to preserve the timeline and keep the Federation intact.

 

[SG-17]

The' civiilised' areas were never Utopia, TOS never portrayed Earth or the Federation as Utopian or even humans as perfect. The explorers were more than capable of screwing things up in Star Trek even in the TNG era.

The 24th century shows Earth at the very least (if not the entire Federation) as utopian. Earth is a "society that possesses highly desirable or nearly perfect qualities for its citizens." Elimination of want, elimination of need, elimination of scarcity. Earth of the 24th century is a utopia.

I honestly don't remember how much of contemporary Earth was actually shown or discussed in TOS or the TOS movies.

Prequels are fine. It's just that they made the same mistake Enterprise made - and made it twice - by thinking that you can do a prequel in an established timeline and "go epic" at the same time.

Discovery's desire to "go epic" in general has always confused me, because Trek is often at its best when it tells intimate, character-focused stories, not stories of existential crisis for the Federation/galaxy/multiverse. But if you're going to go big, it's best to limit that to non-prequel scenarios, because if there really was a crisis of such high levels in the past, it's somewhat remarkable that it's never been discussed before onscreen. Plus of course it's a little bit harder to suspend disbelief when we know everything has to be okay for Kirk & Co ten years later.

Right, which is why if something like Lower Decks is a prequel it (in theory) shouldn't be an issue as its telling "lower level" stories rather than the grandiose nonsense that was in ENT and DIS.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Yeah, hopefully this is just an aberrant timeline resulting from Discovery being pulled into the future similar to how Daniels mucked things up when he brought Archer to the 31st century.

Otherwise something ridiculous would have to happen in far less than 100 years to bring about the gigantic and thriving Federation of the proper mid-31st century down to where it is in the early 32nd century.

Would kinda be fun if this is just part of the Temporal Cold War (maybe the Second Temporal Cold War) and Daniels himself shows up.

Could imagine that some of the more influential and important Federation members ascended and became energy beings, which might have resulted in the system falling apart.

 

[fireproof78]

To be fair, I did pretty much steal it from Star Wars.

I get that, but I think this type of story is better-suited to Star Trek than Star Wars, in my opinion. Star Trek can explore the actual political positions and opinions in a way that establishes points of view and possible consequences. It's a lot less black and white, and invites more investigation.

I honestly don't remember how much of contemporary Earth was actually shown or discussed in TOS or the TOS movies.

Star Trek in TOS era deliberate avoided showing Earth to not worry about modern society, resting on the idea of Starfleet being representation of a united Earth.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Daniels said that Earth didn't exist as Archer knew it. What that exactly implies is unknown, but from Daniels claiming to be "more or less" human I imagine it means that Earth has become heavily inter-meshed with non-human species as the capital of the Federation (as we see it being well on its way in the 24th century shows).

It's still a lot of assumptions about the size and scope of the Federation. For all we know, they're a small group attempting to restore the depleted 31st century Federation back to the majesty it knew in the 24/25th centuries. There's plenty of wiggle room for the Disco writers to reinterpret what we little we actually saw.

Plus the entire purpose of Daniels and the other Temporal Agent's existence is to preserve the timeline and keep the Federation intact.

And "Shockwave" showed us how good they are at that

 

[Nyotarules]

It could have been any war.

Churchill famously said, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth[e] last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was their finest hour." Clearly, the British Empire did not last a thousand years, yet the latter part of the phrase is still true: the British are credited with holding fast against Fascism, arguable sacrificing what they had.

The decline of the Federation could have been engage in some sort of conflict that forced it to lose its cohesion. In that case, it's values would not have been discredited by its collapse.

Perhaps like the British Empire the Federation's values in practise applied to a select few. Other planets might rise up aganst 900 years of Terran and Vulcan privilege and decide enough is enough.
OR
The mirror universe invades and wins, its the Federation v The Terran Empire

Daniels said that Earth didn't exist as Archer knew it. What that exactly implies is unknown, but from Daniels claiming to be "more or less" human I imagine it means that Earth has become heavily inter-meshed with non-human species as the capital of the Federation (as we see it being well on its way in the 24th century shows).

Plus the entire purpose of Daniels and the other Temporal Agent's existence is to preserve the timeline and keep the Federation intact.

Would be interesting to show Earth in the future with its open borders letting all Federation alien members reside, with a small facton of New Terra Primers complaining about too many foreigners in the Sol system.

 

[eschaton]

Right, which is why if something like Lower Decks is a prequel it (in theory) shouldn't be an issue as its telling "lower level" stories rather than the grandiose nonsense that was in ENT and DIS.

It's funny, because even though DS9 is my favorite Trek series, it was where the "epic" disease infected Trek. The Dominion War itself was fine I thought in and of itself. But too many of the characters ended up way too jumped up, with Martok becoming Klingon Chancellor, Rom becoming Grand Negus, and Sisko becoming motherfucking Space Jesus.

I'd argue that all the epic crap that followed - the Xindi arc from ENT, and DIS's two mediocre seasonal arcs - was basically all learning the wrong lessons from the Dominion War and what DS9 did to its characters.

In contrast, I mostly thought Voyager was boring, but the one thing it got right was that the characters were mostly a bunch of nobodies, and the stakes of the series only seldom rose above the personal stakes of the characters and the fate of the ship itself.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Lets hope they don't do anymore prequels.

The idea of prequels and sequels is kinda mooted by time travel. You need that 27D map of Daniels' just to keep things straight.

 

[Nyotarules]

The 24th century shows Earth at the very least (if not the entire Federation) as utopian. Earth is a "society that possesses highly desirable or nearly perfect qualities for its citizens." Elimination of want, elimination of need, elimination of scarcity. Earth of the 24th century is a utopia.

utopia
/juːˈtəʊpɪə/

Learn to pronounce

noun
noun: utopia; plural noun: utopias
an imagined place or state of things in which everything is perfect.

Earth does not meet this criteria, things are economically better than what we have today, most of Earth's population might live what we might call a middle class lifestyle without financial debts hanging over their heads, but that does not translate to 'a perfect place'. If its so perfect why do humans leave and start colonies elsewhere?

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

Well, if they're keeping the supernova for Picard, maybe they're keeping the temporal explosion that Voyager caused which destroyed Earth.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Well Kurtzman was directly involved with the former.