Spoilers Season 3 Comic-Con reveals

[SJGardner]

Also the 'Federation' guy that greets Burnham is definitely a hologram, he flickers slightly when in shot. Perhaps the true Federation have had to go into hiding to maintain themselves for an awakening at a future date, a sort of take on what happened to the Vaadwaar in Voyager.

Hmm... maybe a Foundation-like secret society that works behind the scenes to restore the Federation, complete with its own Hari Seldon hologram? I'd like that.

Of course what I'd like the most was if this Shadow Federation actually turned out to be the real villains of the season because they spent so long in their ivory tower that not only did the galaxy change too much in their absence (just like there would be no point trying to restore the Roman Empire as it was in 1776), but they themselves had forgotten what the Federation was meant to be long ago. Perhaps a nice little conflict and contrast between a half-remembered Federation-That-Was and a possible new Federation-To-Come, built for a new era but based on and inspired by the ideals of the old one, just like how the Roman Republic and Athenian Democracy inspired the French and American Revolutions.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Wonder why the Federation changed their emblem into one with only six stars. Wouldn't a new emblem make more sense?

Seems a bit like like most people in the Federation don't think the former members return and they won't get new ones.

 

[Tomalak]

They kind of did the enemy inside thing with Section 31 last season, so having the rump UFP turn out to be eeeevil might be a bit repetitive.

 

[Search4]

It seems to me from parts of the newest trailer that They went in that direction because of Burnhams time jump.
Something happened to turn things in the Federation toward a downward spiral and apparently it has something to do with Discovery & Burnham jumping forward in time.

Which gets Georgia (sorry spell check) her mission and reason to go back.

 

[SJGardner]

They kind of did the enemy inside thing with Section 31 last season, so having the rump UFP turn out to be eeeevil might be a bit repetitive.

I'd argue it's not that similar if a not necessarily evil, just misguided shadow remnant is all that remains of the UFP, but I see your point; especially if they have some sort of ancient, super-secret tech on their hands to help them do all kinds of shady subterfuge. But on the other hand, they might alternatively be written as fundamentally well-meaning but rigid and boneheaded, still claiming to be the legitimate government and settling for no less than an outright restoration of the Federation as it was, until Discovery convinces them it's no longer feasible, and they should instead integrate into the current galaxy and become a part of a new interstellar alliance, as an equal member.

 

[Nyotarules]

Gene Roddenberry has two shows made based off his ideas? And he would make money?

The only spinning he is doing is the fact he isn't alive to spend it.

Do you not realise that Saint GR is the patron saint of canonistas?

We found out from Daniel's that the Xindi eventually join the Federation. The Klingons went from enemies to allies. After Nemesis the Romulans were ready to talk.
Star Trek's idealism should say that by the 33rd century the Federation would have peacefully expanded to include former enemies. If not as members then as allies.
Star Trek is about peace, love, and understanding not nihilism. If those positives just completely fail, then maybe they should all give up and just die because everything is pointless.

Star Trek was/is about entertaining based on a Wagon train to the stars format, if its a sci- fi Western then there was nothing 'peaceful, loving or understanding' about how the West was won

 

[eschaton]

I can understand the reasoning. I still hate it.

The problem IMO comes from the basic assumptions:

1. We want an optimistic future scenario for humanity
2. We want to show the world become a Mad Max-like post-apocalyptic wasteland

These two DO NOT fit together on such a scale. And I'm really not a fan of going into the meta-physical to force them there.

While I admit they are looking to do the second (the seedy barfight is a dead giveaway) it's not required to have the world be a post-apocalyptic wasteland in order to create a scenario where the (out-of-date) Discovery would have some agency 930 years in the future.

I do think a scenario with some shades of fantasy or "magic" is pretty inevitable in an advanced far-future setting which still has relatable characters however. Eventually the "singularity" is going to happen, and tech is going to bootstrap itself to the point where baseline humans just won't be able to comprehend all of it. Stuff will just happen for seemingly inexplicable reasons, and people will start falling back to intuitive, superstitious explanations rather than using science.

 

[SG-17]

Star Trek was/is about entertaining based on a Wagon train to the stars format, if its a sci- fi Western then there was nothing 'peaceful, loving or understanding' about how the West was won

By that argument the parts that aren't "peaceful, loving or understanding" about Star Trek are supposed to be on the Frontier, hence the Western aping. The "civilized" areas are supposed to be utopian and the people from the utopia exploring the frontier are supposed to be moral, upstanding, peace-loving individuals.

 

[Tuskin38]

A lot to take in from that trailer. Are there only 6 Fed worlds (shown on the flag), or were there at its end?
Why are Morn (kidding), Cardies & Andorians attacking Burnham.
What is going on with those Trill?
What the hell happened to the Federation if Andorians are an enemy now?

I gotta process all this, just saw the trailer and the new Picard one too.

You can also see some Andorians running with Burnham and Co away from some attackers in one shot, so at least they’re not saying all Andorians turned against them.

 

[eschaton]

You can also see some Andorians running with Burnham and Co away from some attackers in one shot, so at least they’re not saying all Andorians turned against them.

And some humans are attacking Burnham and Booker with the Andorians, which suggests that humanity itself is split. Not surprising given how widely spread they surely are by the 32nd century.

 

[Caretaker]

This YouTube Video points out something I hadn't thought about. The Federation flag only has six planets. It used to be 150. Not looking too good for the Federation (or rather what's left of it)... You can see this pointed out around the 5:00-mark.

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Has it ever actually been said the flag showed a star for every Federation member? At one time the focus was only on the founding members. So I don’t take the change in the number of stars to mean anything like a broken apart/destroyed Federation.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I did have a thought. I'm thinking it's going to be more of a civil war kind of thing instead of just a 'fall of the Federation". But here's a thought, what if the 'Federation' Disco/Burnham is fighting for is actually the secessionists? Like the standing government has become so far detached from the original charter that factions started rebelling.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Wonder why the Federation changed their emblem into one with only six stars. Wouldn't a new emblem make more sense?

Probably a convenient storytelling mechanism: you can visually see how much the Federation has been reduced.

 

[fireproof78]

I did have a thought. I'm thinking it's going to be more of a civil war kind of thing instead of just a 'fall of the Federation". But here's a thought, what if the 'Federation' Disco/Burnham is fighting for is actually the secessionists? Like the standing government has become so far detached from the original charter that factions started rebelling.

I find that idea kind of interesting.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I did have a thought. I'm thinking it's going to be more of a civil war kind of thing instead of just a 'fall of the Federation". But here's a thought, what if the 'Federation' Disco/Burnham is fighting for is actually the secessionists? Like the standing government has become so far detached from the original charter that factions started rebelling.

It could have been any war.

Churchill famously said, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth[e] last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was their finest hour." Clearly, the British Empire did not last a thousand years, yet the latter part of the phrase is still true: the British are credited with holding fast against Fascism, arguable sacrificing what they had.

The decline of the Federation could have been engage in some sort of conflict that forced it to lose its cohesion. In that case, it's values would not have been discredited by its collapse.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Whatever that conflict may be, it'll have to be a barn-burner, because it apparently overcame even Daniels and his ilk. They've got some 'splainin' to do...

That said, I'm liking the idea that this is an alternate future that will be undone at some point. With Daniels' era having pretty much absolute mastery of time travel, they could be working on it even now.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I find that idea kind of interesting.

To be fair, I did pretty much steal it from Star Wars.

 

[Lord Garth]

Has it ever actually been said the flag showed a star for every Federation member? At one time the focus was only on the founding members. So I don’t take the change in the number of stars to mean anything like a broken apart/destroyed Federation.

I don't know. But there's a difference between the lots of stars like we normally see... and six.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Has it ever actually been said the flag showed a star for every Federation member?

No.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

^ Whatever that conflict may be, it'll have to be a barn-burner, because it apparently overcame even Daniels and his ilk. They've got some 'splainin' to do...

That said, I'm liking the idea that this is an alternate future that will be undone at some point. With Daniels' era having pretty much absolute mastery of time travel, they could be working on it even now.

Several months ago, just when the season 2 finale came out, the hosts of a youtube channel suggested that Discovery could still play a role in known continuity of Star Trek by being placed in some critical point in the Temporal Cold War. I wish I could remember specifically whom.