• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Rey in The Force Awakens (Possible Spoilers)

Yeah, that one might actually work "the most." But it'd require Qui-Gon to have gone against the "Jedi Code" and slept with someone. Which if we ignore that stupid rule from the stupid prequels, fine by me.
He was supposed to have been something of a rule-bender/troublemaker as far as the Jedi Council was concerned.

You just said that so I'd picture the Emperor having sex. Bastard.
:lol: Not necessarily....I'm sure that a galactic civilization that can produce clone armies should be able to handle a little artificial insemination.
 
I do love that every time people state an obvious tendency for sexism there's somebody who points out some exceptions that somehow are supposed to disprove the whole original statement.
Why don't you be the one to offer evidence first? Give me an example of this "obvious" tendency for sexism that prevents there from being strong female characters in media, and then explain why this phenomena doesn't prevent the hundreds of examples of strong women in media that I can think of off the top of my head from becoming a reality.

TV Tropes link to the 'Smurfette Principle'. The tendency for ensemble casts to have exactly one woman. And those that avoid this trope because they're modern and socially conscious usually just add one more female. Even the Buffyverse, celebrated feminist crusher of the 'damsel in distress' trope, had 11 male main cast members to 8 female, and that's counting Tara's single episode in the credits.
Ok, you'll have to elaborate on this one. I don't like the notion of accusing Joss of hating women using arbitrary bean counting, it's the content that matters. What am I supposed to take away from this, that Joss is a sexist who values women 8/11ths as much as men? That a studio exec told him not to let as many women onto his show? That the audience would've rebelled if the show had 11 women on it? That a show needs 3 women or it's sexism? Who is guilty here and what punishment are you suggesting for them?

Having 11 or 8 or 0 women on your show is an entirely subjective standard, there's no consensus on that, things that are sexist are objectively so, they can't be debated this way, their immorality & harm cannot be debated.

Nobody is saying there aren't or can't be strong (or even weak) female roles in mass media. They are saying they are far rarer than equivalent roles for men.
This means what? Because again, artistic quotas are an entirely subjective point. If anyone can make a strong female character, and the ones who want to are in fact doing so without any discernible negative consequences, than objectively, there is no discernible problem, yes?

And that's not even starting on the issues with age and beauty in Hollywood and the disparity between men and women there. Can you imagine a film like The Expendables, but done with women of the same age?
Would the existence of this theoretical movie reduce sexism? Again, this is a subjective desire of yourself - to have this movie exist. Other people not wanting it doesn't make them monsters. For actors, there is extremely high supply compared to demand. That's an employer's market. If there are 100 younger people lined up behind you, you won't last 50 years at your job unless you are truly exceptional.

Or hiring back Kristanna Loken to play a Terminator again when she's 68? Female actors over a certain age transition to playing maternal roles, or the housekeeper in period dramas, and leave the leads and the action to, often older, men.
People like Arnold are an extreme example, not a representative one. Are there a lot of old women interested in getting punched, stabbed & jumping away from explosions? That actually sounds kind of disturbing. Probably very few, maybe Sigourney Weaver? Again, I chalk this up to lack of interest.
 
Just gonna throw this out there...has anyone suggested that Rey might be descended from Palpatine...?

:eek: No, I had not considered that...
This occurred to me. I dismissed it as unnecessarily complicated, and would be too subtle for Abrams.

Is that against the code? Only attachment is forbidden.

Well, if it's not against the Jedi Code then why did Padme and Anakin feel the need to hide her pregnancy?

Because having a love child is pretty much the most attachment imaginable?
:rofl:
 
TV Tropes link to the 'Smurfette Principle'. The tendency for ensemble casts to have exactly one woman. And those that avoid this trope because they're modern and socially conscious usually just add one more female. Even the Buffyverse, celebrated feminist crusher of the 'damsel in distress' trope, had 11 male main cast members to 8 female, and that's counting Tara's single episode in the credits.
I agree that having a token female, especially in the Trek shows, has been a problem. On the original show, the only female was regulated to answering hails, and it has been argued that in TNG, the only two females were given typical care-giving roles (ignoring the fact that Crusher is a doctor, not a nurse, and Tasha Yar existed at the beginning). I can see your point that many shows added one more female character to balance things out.

However, nearly every show brought up exist in the action/sci-fi genre, a genre that typically is enjoyed, at least in majority, by men. Genres that women are the majority audience for, such as romantic comedies, data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJ...TObxH3MMaJWIif3m5n5gdc3iPuYi581sTdo6neeMAz//Z, and dramas typically have a more diverse cast.

So while I agree that even taken all genres into consideration, there may be more men cast than women overall, it doesn't prevent there from being strong female characters in important roles.
Nobody is saying there aren't or can't be strong (or even weak) female roles in mass media.
No, that's was was said.
They are saying they are far rarer than equivalent roles for men.
Like I said, if you only take into account scifi/action, a genre typically enjoyed by men more than by women.
And that's not even starting on the issues with age and beauty in Hollywood and the disparity between men and women there. Can you imagine a film like The Expendables, but done with women of the same age?
No. That would be like a remake of The Women starring middle-aged male actors.
Or hiring back Kristanna Loken to play a Terminator again when she's 68? Female actors over a certain age transition to playing maternal roles, or the housekeeper in period dramas, and leave the leads and the action to, often older, men.
I could if Kristanna were even remotely as popular as Arnold was in his prime. 66 year-old Signourney Weaver
still gets roles in major genre films (though admittedly smaller roles).
 
Perhaps Qui-Gon Jinn manipulated the midi-chlorians through "The Force" from the great beyond so that they would spontaneously conceive Rey.

Don't hurt me.

Kor
 
Personally, I'm extremely tired of "forced" equality in movies. Especially between the sexes, and particularly action-oriented roles. Men are attracted to and better suited for many jobs, just as women are attracted to and better suited for many other jobs. Being in denial about that just to satisfy a bunch of people who get off on being outraged is what's truly ridiculous.

I mean, do these people really think that every military in the world is heavily skewed to males rather than females because an equal number of men and women are (or at least wanting to) signing up but only the women are being turned away? As opposed to it just not being something most women are interested in pursuing?
 
However, nearly every show brought up exist in the action/sci-fi genre, a genre that typically is enjoyed, at least in majority, by men.

Ain't that sort of the point?
That those shows were not enjoyed by women as much because they had no (or very few) female characters...
 
Ain't that sort of the point?
That those shows were not enjoyed by women as much because they had no (or very few) female characters...
Do you honestly think that's the reason?

I guess that's why kids hate Iron Man, because he's not being portrayed by a kid. And women hated Magic Mike because none of the primary actors were women.
 
Hey Arrrrgggh, there's a lot of sexism showing in your posts. You might wanna see to that. Nice try, though. ;)
 
Hey Arrrrgggh, there's a lot of sexism showing in your posts. You might wanna see to that. Nice try, though. ;)
If "sexism" is now a synonym for "realist," then sure I'm sexist. But if going by the actual definition of the term, no, I'm not. I'm just not brainwashed by the PC movement that's rotting people's brains.

Want more examples though? I can name tons. Here's a few more.

Stand By Me: I guess only kids like this one, and women definitely hate it. I mean, there's no real women of note in the movie, certainly not in the lead, so clearly women hate it.

The Princess Bride: With all the leads being male, and the only women being a witch, a crone, and a damsel in distress, this must be one of the most hated movies of all time, at least as far as women are concerned. Such sexist portrayals! In fact, I doubt there's a single woman out there who loves this movie, let alone watches it.

Star Wars IV: Damn, there's another one that kids must absolutely hate since none of the leads are kids.

If it hasn't quite dawned on you, my point is: People don't love or hate movies because the leads are the same gender or age as they are. At least sensible people don't. People who get off on twitter raging notwithstanding.
 
Uhm, no? I'm glad you think these are the only posts I've made though. It shows just how insightful and intelligent you really are.
 
To move on to more relevant things:

YyO1E0C.jpg


:D
 
Uhm, no? I'm glad you think these are the only posts I've made though. It shows just how insightful and intelligent you really are.

:rolleyes: Your first post was today at 8:21 AM. Yeah, you have real posting history here. Unless, this is a dupe account from a regular who is too afraid to say certain things under his real ID, I'd say that Emma's comment was pretty spot-on. And also, real smart, insulting a moderator. Let's see how far that gets you.:lol:
 
1.) I guess new users aren't welcome? I just saw Star Wars the night before last and found this forum talking about it.

2.) If green is supposed to indicate a moderator, then they're the one who started with insults, not the other way around.

3.) This still isn't the only thread I've posted in.
 
1.) I guess new users aren't welcome?

You're drawing that conclusion because on this site people won't put up with sexist bullshit?
The victim complex ("I'm not welcome here. :(") evident in the post doesn't make things better.
Sexists/Racists always complain about how "evil" political correctness (read: the concept that people should be treated equally and with respect) is keeping them from freely voicing their sexist/racist nonsense. So, since you're neither a sexist nor a racist I suppose you don't really want to play that card, right?

2.) If green is supposed to indicate a moderator, then they're the one who started with insults, not the other way around.

Calling a sexist post sexist isn't an insult. Try again. There is no PC inquisition even though plenty of people seem to expect it.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top