I'm not. They go hand in hand where The Motion Picture is concerned in my view. I think it's a great sci-fi epic.
Rewatched TMP last night
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I'm not. They go hand in hand where The Motion Picture is concerned in my view. I think it's a great sci-fi epic.
I think it is more grand and epic than the JJ movies, and a lot more besides. Despite it's problems, there's something so special about it.
The most special thing for me about TMP is that it was the start of the revival of live action Star Trek after 10 years...with the only new stuff having been the animated series in '72. (Which I still love. 
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It's got things in it we just don't see in movies these days - an overture for smeg's sake, the long shots of the Enterprise, the score - it's so old school but is such a gift to the fans.
Imagine the Star Trek franchise without it. I can't. It is a rich part of it's history and it should be cherished. Star Trek would be worse off without it.
Imagine the Star Trek franchise without it. I can't. It is a rich part of it's history and it should be cherished. Star Trek would be worse off without it.
I think it is more grand and epic than the JJ movies, and a lot more besides. Despite it's problems, there's something so special about it.
You are right about that. I was a boy that Friday December 7th 1979 when I saw TMP with my family.
It is still epic to me today.
Agree.
TMP is the one film of all the pre-JJ films that is epic like 2001.
I think it is more grand and epic than the JJ movies, and a lot more besides. Despite it's problems, there's something so special about it.
You are right about that. I was a boy that Friday December 7th 1979 when I saw TMP with my family.
It is the first film my dad took me to see at the cinema, aged 5 and a half, so it's fair to say it's had a big impact on my life, it, along with TOS re-runs in the 70's is the reason I got into Trek in the first place.
You are right about that. I was a boy that Friday December 7th 1979 when I saw TMP with my family.
It is the first film my dad took me to see at the cinema, aged 5 and a half, so it's fair to say it's had a big impact on my life, it, along with TOS re-runs in the 70's is the reason I got into Trek in the first place.
Yes.
Same with me too, '70s reruns of TOS, first-run TAS and the decade ended brilliantly with TMP.
I never really watched TAS but after TMP I was sold, forever. By the time TWOK came out my grandmother took me to watch it and fell asleep halfway through, me, at the age of eight, stayed behind and watched it twice. She woke up halfway through the second showing. My mum went mad with her.
the sexual politics regarding the bald lady, a lot of female Trekkies/Trekkers have trouble with today IIRC.
Her whole oath of celibacy thing? Wasn't that because she was Deltan? She basically says humanity are sweaty teenagers.
Granted, Roddenberry had his own issues, and wanted the opening full of naked people, the Shat included, in a 'humanity no longer associates nudity with sex/ sex isn't a big deal with hang ups anymore/ I am Roddenberry and like to see skin way. But at least two of those things, whilst a bit sixties hippy in mentality, aren't much grounded in sexual politics per se.
Now the scripts for phase ii that got made into nextgen episodes...yeah.
But Deltan pheromones and touch telepathy?
It's just an alien thing, and is quite similar to Spock. Almost identical in a bunch of ways. The only embarrassing thing there is the way the bridge crew temporarily turned into characters from American Pie for three seconds, those sexually immature people.
Behind the scenes...maybe. Roddenberry again insisting on nudity that would never be remotely seen on screen.
But on screen in context? Tmp is pretty much free of that baggage, especially considering the time period.
A recent not so funny parody, Space Station 76 quietly mocks the conventions of the time. Have only watched the opening, but it gets seventies soft porn sf approach spot on.
Oddly, it's horror films that later take up that titillation, pure sf moved on, but I suspect it's worse getting titillation as part of a violent narrative than sf.
Not that TMP even goes further than the sonic shower. Which was more a nice physical/ optical effect set up.
Man does earth tech take a leap backwards in the next movie. People actually do up their own clothes.
I think it's fun to speculate about how Deltan abilities might work. Seems to me they would be sensitive to pheromones too. Perhaps they are not true telepaths but they can judge a creature's emotional state from it's pheromones. Maybe they can tweak the pheromones that they create to ease pain and actively adjust another being's emotional state. Maybe they can project other emotions this way too.
I agree!
This is nonsense. I've never heard anything of the sort about "the bald lady."
Yup, they were decent sketch of an alien species shown through one main character and a few lines. All of which would have still applied to a male character in all likelihood. Well..except given the time, and assuming the pheromones are in anyway tied to humanoid binary gendered reproduction, only Uhura would have swooned. And Sulu probably smiles at every new arrival that way, maybe gives them flowers off camera.
The oath of celibacy thing isn't much different to Spock repressing his powerful Vulcan passions with logic, and the touch telepathy seems less invasive than Spock melding with every sentient rock he meets. I believe the background man in skirt extra is also Deltan.
Remember...from what I hear, in the seventies, the girls grokked Spock. The boys had guest stars, a mysteriously vanishing Yeoman or Uhura. From a hetero perspective. What with Kirk baring his chest at every opportunity, and Sulu working on his abs, there was something for everyone. Damn hippies.
The way pheromone powers were handled with that Orion nonsense on enterprise was more sexist than anything here, worse than some of the TOS stuff from the sixties. (Which is also very progressive in context. TOS that is. Enterprise was regressive in a bunch of ways. And Scott Bakula took his shirt off a lot....so I guess it's swings and roundabouts. With a velour Vulcan sat on them.)
Ilia is a remarkable character, all things considered. And casting an Indian woman in a lead role in those days? Progressive as heck.
In this case, it's pure projection to pin heavy real world sexual politics on Ilia for anything other than probes miniskirt.
The oath of celibacy thing isn't much different to Spock repressing his powerful Vulcan passions with logic, and the touch telepathy seems less invasive than Spock melding with every sentient rock he meets. I believe the background man in skirt extra is also Deltan.
Remember...from what I hear, in the seventies, the girls grokked Spock. The boys had guest stars, a mysteriously vanishing Yeoman or Uhura. From a hetero perspective. What with Kirk baring his chest at every opportunity, and Sulu working on his abs, there was something for everyone. Damn hippies.
The way pheromone powers were handled with that Orion nonsense on enterprise was more sexist than anything here, worse than some of the TOS stuff from the sixties. (Which is also very progressive in context. TOS that is. Enterprise was regressive in a bunch of ways. And Scott Bakula took his shirt off a lot....so I guess it's swings and roundabouts. With a velour Vulcan sat on them.)
Ilia is a remarkable character, all things considered. And casting an Indian woman in a lead role in those days? Progressive as heck.
In this case, it's pure projection to pin heavy real world sexual politics on Ilia for anything other than probes miniskirt.
I'm pretty sure that in the novelisation of TMP - penned by Gene Roddenberry, himself - Ilia's healing powers were related to her sexual powers. The implication was, if I'm remembering it right, that there's such a fine line between pleasure and pain that her touch-telepath abilities basically excite the pleasure center of the brain to counteract the burning sensation, in this case.
In a sense it still was a pilot, but for the new movie series rather than a TV series. Alas, the films to follow went in a different direction, but the intention of using TMP to launch a series of films would have been there when they were making it.
So Ilia basically gives Chekov a (metaphorical) handjob to heal him? That might explain Pavel's... interesting reaction after he's been cured.
Given how much casual sex Deltans have, having a power that lets them block out burning sensations must be an evolutionary godsend.
Actually, the TWoK novelisation has two Deltan characters. In many ways, Zinaida was more fleshed out than Ilia (she uses her powers to euthenase someone). After reading that, I found Deltans to be much more interesting.
Agreed.
Love the thread, gonna go watch it again.
Can anyone favorably comment on the novelization?
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