Rewatched TMP last night
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^ No, I think Gerry Anderson did what James Cameron did on Aliens, which is to film those scenes at 25fps, matching the rate of UK PAL format monitors.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c.../main/pguide/upimage.html+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk
[Sorry about the cache link, but the page isn't working.]
Which doesn't really answer what happened on TWOK.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c.../main/pguide/upimage.html+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk
[Sorry about the cache link, but the page isn't working.]
Which doesn't really answer what happened on TWOK.
In some ways I've found my viewings of TMP more enjoyable since I've come to regard it in my own mind as being the TV pilot episode that the story was originally intended to be. As a movie, in and of itself, I used to see all of its flaws. But as a 'TV pilot episode' that has simply been inflated to big screen proportions, I find it much more palatable and easier to get into the atmosphere of it.
There are lots of little touches in there which seem unecessary for a movie script, but which are great little nods towards setting up a follow-up TV series. The whole first two acts are basically 'everybody meets everybody', and establishing the new Enterprise, which isn't totally uncalled for in a reunion movie like this, but which feel much more like they're just lining things up for the TV episodes to come.
There are lots of little touches in there which seem unecessary for a movie script, but which are great little nods towards setting up a follow-up TV series. The whole first two acts are basically 'everybody meets everybody', and establishing the new Enterprise, which isn't totally uncalled for in a reunion movie like this, but which feel much more like they're just lining things up for the TV episodes to come.
With regards to the data displays on the bridge, I suspect the issue was cost. The bridge was built in 1977 for the Phase II series. Video technology was expensive and the need to sync every display to the film camera would have been cost prohibitive. Each station would have required a certain number of video monitors, each one synced to the film camera. The cost in equipment alone would have been enormous.
The bridge of the BattleStar Galactica was enormously expensive due in part to the number of video screens being used. Space:1999 only had a few live monitors built into each set and syncing these screens would have been less hassle than an entire bridge full of video displays.
Given the TV origins of the bridge set, 8mm loops would have far less expensive. By the time Wrath of Khan was filmed, the cost of using video equipment was certainly less expensive (as all technology becomes over time), not to mention the realization how much money could be saved if video was used rather than loop all the dialog afterwards.
Personally, I would have loved to see the original bridge displays used once again. The original TV displays actually seemed to present useful data while the movie displays showed images that were cool but were harder to interpret. The biggest offender is Spock's blinky Christmas Tree light display that always looked cheap to me. That display is supposedly indicating what parts of the computer core are being used at any given time according the the handbook given to the cast explaining their stations prior to filming. Nonetheless, I always thought those blinky lights looked cheap as opposed to the functional displays of the original bridge set.
The bridge of the BattleStar Galactica was enormously expensive due in part to the number of video screens being used. Space:1999 only had a few live monitors built into each set and syncing these screens would have been less hassle than an entire bridge full of video displays.
Given the TV origins of the bridge set, 8mm loops would have far less expensive. By the time Wrath of Khan was filmed, the cost of using video equipment was certainly less expensive (as all technology becomes over time), not to mention the realization how much money could be saved if video was used rather than loop all the dialog afterwards.
Personally, I would have loved to see the original bridge displays used once again. The original TV displays actually seemed to present useful data while the movie displays showed images that were cool but were harder to interpret. The biggest offender is Spock's blinky Christmas Tree light display that always looked cheap to me. That display is supposedly indicating what parts of the computer core are being used at any given time according the the handbook given to the cast explaining their stations prior to filming. Nonetheless, I always thought those blinky lights looked cheap as opposed to the functional displays of the original bridge set.
Interesting, thanks.
I have not read all the replies here so I just want to add my opinion on the OP.
I have always liked TMP and think it is over criticised. To me, it is Star Trek's epic. A slow movie, high on visual effects..it really is good.
And yes the uniforms were good too, again im unsure why people dislike them.
I have always liked TMP and think it is over criticised. To me, it is Star Trek's epic. A slow movie, high on visual effects..it really is good.
And yes the uniforms were good too, again im unsure why people dislike them.
I wonder what the Phase II show would have used for the monitors. I can't imagine the film loops and all those projectors being practical for a TV production. Heck, as I recall. on the original show they had to drop al the slide projectors used in "The Cage" because of the cost of the Union projectionists required to run them all.
EDIT. I asked Rick Sternbach about it. He said:
EDIT. I asked Rick Sternbach about it. He said:
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Interesting information regarding the film loops and the Phase II bridge. I never knew this. I had just assumed the whole film loop display was a hold-over from the Phase II bridge. Thank you for setting this straight.
My feelings also. The craft that goes into making the Enterprise feel like a massive possibly even dangerous machine that takes the entire crew to operate safely alone is still highly impressive and provides a really good dramatic base for the story. I think the majority of the visual effects still hold up really well too, despite some of them going on too long (not the drydock scenes though, pure starship porn to me). The whole affair feels big, epic, and important. It has a sense of awe and an 'X-factor' that none of the other movies have, including the JJ movies, and I think it deserves huge praise for that.
The fact that it's not a big action film doesn't matter to me one bit - you've already got the fact that everyone on board is tense as not only is there ship and home planet under threat, if they don't pull their weight, someone or might die - this seed is implanted starting with the transporter accident, then the wormhole scene. Before you even think of the massive, destructive force that lay ahead...
I wish I could agree. I wanted to like TMP. Saw it a second time during its original run to be sure of my distaste for the movie, and the reasons for it: a script full of undistinguished dialogue (possibly because it wasn't well sorted even after shooting began) performed by actors who didn't seem particularly attuned to their roles, and were unable to evoke whatever small amount of charm or humor the ultimate script contained - which would have helped a lot. Nor did the director's edition solve the problems, at least for me.
By wanting to be "important," the writer(s)/producer(s) of TMP achieved something like the reverse. Thought experiment: Imagine placing the title "THE HUMAN ADVENTURE IS JUST BEGINNING" at the end of 2001: A Space Odyssey, just before the credits. It's no less relevant than the same title at the end of TMP, right? But wouldn't it seem unbearably silly? If TMP had achieved importance of this sort, no one would have felt the need to place that advertising slogan in the movie itself.
I do agree, however, with the Leonard Maltin book's review: "somewhat redeemed by terrific special effects and majestic Jerry Goldsmith score."
By wanting to be "important," the writer(s)/producer(s) of TMP achieved something like the reverse. Thought experiment: Imagine placing the title "THE HUMAN ADVENTURE IS JUST BEGINNING" at the end of 2001: A Space Odyssey, just before the credits. It's no less relevant than the same title at the end of TMP, right? But wouldn't it seem unbearably silly? If TMP had achieved importance of this sort, no one would have felt the need to place that advertising slogan in the movie itself.
I do agree, however, with the Leonard Maltin book's review: "somewhat redeemed by terrific special effects and majestic Jerry Goldsmith score."
The fact that it's not a big action film doesn't matter to me one bit - you've already got the fact that everyone on board is tense as not only is there ship and home planet under threat, if they don't pull their weight, someone or might die - this seed is implanted starting with the transporter accident, then the wormhole scene. Before you even think of the massive, destructive force that lay ahead...
Excellent posts and its nice to see some love for TMP.
As you so rightly say, TMP feels important. Even the ship feels like the vast machine that it is [that must be operated properly] unlike in every other film and episode where the ships are always tickety-boo unless an external factor effects them.
The movie is a huge adventure, dare I say, it is wonderous in scope. Something truly 'out there'...something unkown to be..negotiated with? Destroyed?...or understood?
The starship porn is utterly wonderful and just further develops the slow build up as we ALL prepare to face this unknown.
TMP is pure Star Trek.
Absolutely it is. It has it problems yes, it can come across as a bit stiff but these are still overshadowed by the films positives.
I'm a big fan of the reboot films and I'm looking forward to the third one , and I know it almost certainly never happen but if they decided to do another Trek film with the serious tone and scope of The Motion Picture, I'd be a very happy man.
I think on many, many levels it is the very best Star Trek movie.
It is pure Star Trek.
I think someone upthread put it best when they said it's almost a pre-TOS revision of Star Trek. It wipes away the 'action adventure' format imposed on Gene by the network, and starts from a sense-of-wonder standpoint instead (we saw a glimpse of this as early as "The Cage").
The threat faced by the Enterprise is esoteric... compare it to the Doomsday device, or even the Fesarius from "The Corbomite Maneuver". These big, unknown objects 'out there' in space, which cause our little starship and its crew to re-evaluate their place in the cosmos.
People expected after 69 episodes of Star Trek action adventure to see the crew facing danger with fisticuffs, or after Star Wars in pitched space battles. They had this kind of expectation, so when TMP was more thought-provoking and meandered from one philosophical point to another it wasn't what audiences wanted at the time. TWOK was much more of the "blast 'em up with morals" that TOS had traditionally been.
In retrospect though, TMP's serene pace is to its benefit, and after many Star Trek movies that basically boil down to 'get the bad guy', TMP actually ends up looking better for the fact that it tries to be something different.
I think someone upthread put it best when they said it's almost a pre-TOS revision of Star Trek. It wipes away the 'action adventure' format imposed on Gene by the network, and starts from a sense-of-wonder standpoint instead (we saw a glimpse of this as early as "The Cage").
The threat faced by the Enterprise is esoteric... compare it to the Doomsday device, or even the Fesarius from "The Corbomite Maneuver". These big, unknown objects 'out there' in space, which cause our little starship and its crew to re-evaluate their place in the cosmos.
People expected after 69 episodes of Star Trek action adventure to see the crew facing danger with fisticuffs, or after Star Wars in pitched space battles. They had this kind of expectation, so when TMP was more thought-provoking and meandered from one philosophical point to another it wasn't what audiences wanted at the time. TWOK was much more of the "blast 'em up with morals" that TOS had traditionally been.
In retrospect though, TMP's serene pace is to its benefit, and after many Star Trek movies that basically boil down to 'get the bad guy', TMP actually ends up looking better for the fact that it tries to be something different.
Some good points there, however the only thing I don't get is when people say it wasn't what audiences wanted to see or the film wasn't successful - adjusted for inflation it took the equivalent of $266 million dollars at the domestic box office - a pretty sizeable haul IMO, making it the second most successful movie of the franchise domestically. Clearly a lot of people went to see it.
I like that it did it's own thing and didn't try and ape Star Wars.
More specifically, to generate that level of ticket sales, a fair number of people went to see it more than once during the original run (the last time I did so was for Back to the Future in '85). But in the case of TMP, I went again primarily because TMP was, you know, the only Star Trek available other than syndication-cut reruns, which might be broadcast at inconvenient times. (Home video was costly then; I made AUDIO cassettes of some of the episodes, with mike held up to TV speaker.)
On 7 Dec 1979 the long drought was over and we fans were SO prepared to enjoy it - and whatever about it there was to enjoy was enough to impel me and others to go more than once, despite the longueurs and other flaws of the movie.
Please, let's not confuse movie ticket sales with enduring quality.
I personally thoroughly enjoyed the movie. The first few minutes were the best, but overall, I loved the film in its entirety. It still remains (despite my faves of the OS movies being TUC and TWOK) as the Trek movie I have most heavily watched even after all these tears....and it makes for good background noise to go to sleep to.
TheGoodStuff said:
They would've made great childrens' pajamas, which is what they look like (IMHO)
The costume design in the movie looked (as I grew older) to me as if Gene Roddenberry was trying to beat people over the head with his whole "future utopia" thing.....right down to the Logan's Run-esque casual wear we saw when Kirk arrived at SFHQ in San Francisco. Guys in miniskirts....yeah, didn't work for me in TNG years later either.
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