I remembered being disappointed at age 4 expecting to be as good as Khan but i thought it was a disappointing film, however years later the DC is far better no doubt.
Rewatched TMP last night
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The prologue is the most interesting part; there's not as much additional material in the text itself as there were in some of the later novelizations.
Overgeeked said:
I enjoyed the novelization of TMP. I thought Roddenberry did a nice job with Alan Dean Foster's story. I like how he portrayed the opening moments of the story about the Klingon battlecruisers, having Kirk being able to monitor the events through some kind of implant in his brain (although, in another sense, that is rather a disturbing take on the so-called "utopia" that Roddenberry envisioned... it sounds closer to the "Patriot Act" than to any utopia.) But, the immediate thoughts of Kirk as he saw the K't'inga class battlecruisers getting digitized by the alien... "wall portraits in hell"....that was a neat touch.
However, it also shows that Roddenberry didn't hold to his own ideal that StarFleet isn't military. Kirk's thoughts about the Enterprise: That the term "heavy cruiser" was a misnomer, and that Enterprise was more deserving of a designation like "battleship". Last time I checked, there were no battleships in a non-military force.
I liked that we got to read Kirk's brief exchange with Admiral Heihachiro Nogura (the meeting he mentioned to Commander Sonak in the movie). I also liked that we got to meet the young Admiral who would later be killed in the transporter accident on the Enterprise alongside Sonak.
I wish I had the novelization still. Alas, it got lost over time. I'm sure I might be able to find it in a second hand book store somewhere.
I also agree with Harry Cannon. I loved the Director's Cut of TMP. I liked the upgraded effects in some shots. I liked the full reveal of V'ger as it approaches Earth. The pacing seemed a lot faster as well. It's too bad that the upgraded effects were done in standard definition only, as I would love to see a blu-ray of the Director's Cut. Of course, back in 2000 and before, all we really had as mainstream was SD.
TMP is far from my favorite Trek film, but it doesn't fall so low that it is in the register of The Final Frontier, The Voyage Home, Generations, or Insurrection. I love TMP, truthfully. Loved it when I was 10, seeing it on the big screen for the first time in '79. Love it now.
TMP also remains the Trek film I have most heavily watched, or at least listened to (when I go to sleep and want good background noise). And it is a distinction that isn't in danger of fading any time soon.
Probably because there was no Harve Bennett yet to back Gene into a corner...
A most interesting and intriguing thought.
I'm not overly familiar with some of that history. I know that Bennett and Meyer did their quick research when they were brought into the sequel project, and thus TWOK was born.... but could you please elaborate on what you just mentioned?
Was it because of the look and feel of TWOK that Roddenberry started going back to his "non-military" ideals? Was it something deeper?
I'd love to hear your thoughts, and others' on this matter.
I don't have the elaboration but it's my understanding through my reading here and elsewhere that certain comments such as how Starfleet is not a military institution were reactions to the more militaristic aspects that Harve and Nick Meyer had brought to Trek, with the uniforms, with the subtle references to Hornblower, etc. Not issues with the decisions, necessarily, but issues with the fact that he was gently being pushed out of a position of power with Trek.
Seems to be something stuck in Roddenberry's craw that persisted into the development of TNG, where Picard actually refuses to define Starfleet as a military, and a project Gene was spearheading this time.
I'm more than sure others have more insightful or correct information, of course.
Seems to be something stuck in Roddenberry's craw that persisted into the development of TNG, where Picard actually refuses to define Starfleet as a military, and a project Gene was spearheading this time.
I'm more than sure others have more insightful or correct information, of course.
I kinda got the same sense from those readings as well.
Regardless of Roddenberry's stance, I did find TMP an enjoyable read.
Regardless of Roddenberry's stance, I did find TMP an enjoyable read.
I guess today it would be like on Earth's oceans exploration done in the past with Jacques Cousteau's Calypso or currently with Dr. Robert Ballard's Nautilus. Albeit, neither the Calypso nor the Nautilus are armed vessels.
I guess this is the de facto TMP appreciation thread, eh? Seeing as though all the other films have one, I'll throw my hat in.
Strangely enough, I think this is part of reason why the movie appeals to me. The reason why the characters seem off is because they, for the first half at least, are off - Kirk's trying to find his place on the Enterprise coming off of years behind a desk, Spock's back on the ship he supposedly left forever trying to make sense of what happened on Vulcan, Bee-Gee Bones has been dragged kicking and screaming way from his alleged "retirement" - and they're all up against a gigantic, relentless, alien behemoth that chomps down space stations and Klingon battlecruisers as if they were Hula Hoops. There's a whole anxious, uncomfortable air to the proceedings - and while I understand it's maybe not what Trekkies wanted to see back in '79, in hindsight I think it helps the film a lot. Which brings me to....
Does anyone else bar me feel as though TMP, is many ways, the most TNG-like of the movies? Even more so than the actual TNG entries? I couldn't put my finger on it before, but to me it feels like a precursor to all those "Enterprise encounters weird and/or dangerous phenomenon" episodes that TNG did so well, except with a much bigger budget and the TOS cast. The tenser, more clinical, more businesslike atmosphere to the film seems to me a lot closer to what we'd get with Picard and co.
Strangely enough, I think this is part of reason why the movie appeals to me. The reason why the characters seem off is because they, for the first half at least, are off - Kirk's trying to find his place on the Enterprise coming off of years behind a desk, Spock's back on the ship he supposedly left forever trying to make sense of what happened on Vulcan, Bee-Gee Bones has been dragged kicking and screaming way from his alleged "retirement" - and they're all up against a gigantic, relentless, alien behemoth that chomps down space stations and Klingon battlecruisers as if they were Hula Hoops. There's a whole anxious, uncomfortable air to the proceedings - and while I understand it's maybe not what Trekkies wanted to see back in '79, in hindsight I think it helps the film a lot. Which brings me to....
Does anyone else bar me feel as though TMP, is many ways, the most TNG-like of the movies? Even more so than the actual TNG entries? I couldn't put my finger on it before, but to me it feels like a precursor to all those "Enterprise encounters weird and/or dangerous phenomenon" episodes that TNG did so well, except with a much bigger budget and the TOS cast. The tenser, more clinical, more businesslike atmosphere to the film seems to me a lot closer to what we'd get with Picard and co.
drt said:
It's clear that TNG was "inspired" by Phase II in many respects. I used to joke with people who asked the rhetorical question "What would Phase II have been like?", by responding that we actually *got* it on our TV screens between 1987 and 1994.
The truth is (probably) a bit more complex than that. But it certainly seems plausible that Gene went to bedside cupboard, dusted off the ten year old Phase II series bible, and used it as a jumping off point for those very early brainstorming sessions with Bob Justman, David Gerrold and Dorothy Fontana...
The storylines themselves are completely different, but TMP and EaF hit many of the same script beats. Both of them are basically written as pilot episodes for their respective shows, and both do all of the pilot episode-y type things that are expected from a pilot.
Does anyone know what the story was with some of those Real Life-looking people in the Recreation Deck sequence? For example, there's one fat guy with a very bad complexion who's given, oh ... maybe 5 seconds worth of screentime for reasons that are not at all clear. Elsewhere, there are others who take a decent picture, mixed in with actor-looking people and again, there's no obvious reason for this. Was it all part of a TREKKIE contest, or something "Win a Chance to Appear on STAR TREK: The Motion Picture"?
imdb states this: "The rec-deck briefing was filmed to finally show the entire crew complement of the Enterprise, something that had always been impossible during the television series due to the low budget. All of the extras in the rec-deck briefing sequence were Star Trek fans called upon to appear in the film. Most of their checks were not cashed; Harve Bennett said that they were probably framed as souvenirs by the fans."
... I thank you, sir!
I can understand this attitude among fans who didn't see TMP in theaters. But those like myself who did (after waiting for a decade with no new original-cast Star Trek other than the compromised cartoon series and the Kirk/Spock anti-drug abuse radio commercial circa 1975) certainly felt this as a detriment.
It might have made a difference if the bridge crew had, at any point in, say, the last quarter of the movie, ultimately gained the comfort with each other that was shown in (for example) any random 2 minutes of bridge-crew scenes in TWoK. These same characters in TMP might as well have been the team of scientists in the underground facility in the last section of The Andromeda Strain for all the warmth they were able to generate. (Not that I necessarily blame Robert Wise; what could he or any other director do with the "Out there - thataway" conclusion, or any other scene in that sadly misbegotten script?)
I'll lay my cards on the deck and say I was still five years off being born when TMP was released, so I didn't have that burden of expectation to contend with. In fact I think it was the last TOS film I got round to seeing, except possibly TFF.
I wonder what sort of similarities there are in regards to the Trek situation in 2009 compared to 1979. The next movie after wasn't until 1982 right? Did Trekkies of the time believe that Star Trek was just as dead as they do now?
Anyway, currently watching TMP again, I can definitely see the pacing problems and the blandness of the crew. You don't pad out a television episode for a full length movie, all you end up with is fluff (or starship porn in TMP's case). I still love it, it is still my favorite, even though it has no right to be. Goldsmith's score is truly awesome (though First Contact's had better instrumentation, and he even said that he liked it better).
It was panned by critics but made the most money of all the movies until XI in 2009, that's incredible.
Anyway, currently watching TMP again, I can definitely see the pacing problems and the blandness of the crew. You don't pad out a television episode for a full length movie, all you end up with is fluff (or starship porn in TMP's case). I still love it, it is still my favorite, even though it has no right to be. Goldsmith's score is truly awesome (though First Contact's had better instrumentation, and he even said that he liked it better).
It was panned by critics but made the most money of all the movies until XI in 2009, that's incredible.
Could not agree with you more! I've often felt that "The Cage" is to TMP as "Where No Man" is to TWOK. In regards to your comment about TMP being the only "great" and "epic" film in the franchise, I think you only have to look at the fact that the film not only tackles what is probably the biggest question we as a species can ask ourselves "Is this all I am? Is there nothing more?" -- but also PROVIDES AN ANSWER: learn all that is learnable, but keep it in balance with the core of our pure humanity, only then will we be able to transcend to the next stage in our "Adventure." Beautiful, awesome stuff. TMP rocks.
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