Spoilers References in "Discovery"?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by Captain59, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    How can we tell? There is no dialogue mention of the location. There is no plot element to connect it with Starfleet Headquarters. The background in the establishing shot in "Demons" is generic water-and-green-hills. Could be Lake Geneva for all we know. The architecture is just generic Late Early Classic Futurism Retroed...

    In any case, the first Geneva date was 1928, a real treaty on biological weapons. The second was indeed 2155, while the "Demons" meeting carries the date January 19, 2155.

    I like that one, too. <clicks "like">

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  2. cwellslovell

    cwellslovell Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I really hope that the reference to Voq's having to go sacrifice "everything" in the episode four conclusion is somehow linked to the Augment virus, and his conflict with Kol (from House of Kor) is a set up to the Albino conflict in Blood Oath.

    The point made in an earlier thread (I tried to find it to quote but am still learning the board so please forgive my inability) that DIS serves well more so as a sequel to ENT than a prequel to TOS is quite astute and I wish that the many critics of the show could view it as such. The "redesign" of the klingons and more cavalier and agressive Starfleet posture fits really well as an extension of the post ENT universe. I think that serialized streaming Trek is taking some getting used to for us all as there has never been so furiosuly paced a ST series before, but I do hope that the future episodes of DIS take the opportunities to tie in to the larger canon (ENT & DS9 & TOS) in these small but really important ways. It could be an enriching of the canon as opposed to the startling divergence that many perceive it to be. (My apologies for this being a bit more of a DIS post than an ENT post but I'm slowly wading into that board as the temperature in their is still riding pretty hot. Gotta wait a few more weeks for it to calm down in there).
     
  3. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Looks like Archer gets his mention this week!

    On a list of famous Starship captains along with Robert April, Philippa Georgiou and Matt Decker
     
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  4. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    More specifically, he's among "the most decorated", which is a funny thing for Saru to be aiming at. Although quite possibly a good rationalization for why the list only contains names we know: Starfleet decorates those who bring back good footage of their exploits.

    The list appears alphabetical, another good way to dodge "Hey, why isn't X there?" or "Why does Y get more medals than Z?" or indeed "Why is everybody but Archer from the 2250s?" complaints. Although again a funny thing for Saru to do, truncating the list like that rather than letting it scroll.

    Or should we address that last concern by saying that Jonathan Archer, too, is from the 2250s? Perhaps this is a grandson or something?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  5. EmoBorg

    EmoBorg Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    There was no Balthazar Edison mentioned as well among the highly decorated. Didn't Chris Pine's Kirk mention that he was a hero of the Federation ?
     
  6. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Probably not in the role of starship captain, though, but as a MACO slaughterer of evil bug-eyed monsters. This wouldn't gain him a place on this particular list.

    Alphabetically, few captains we know from onscreen material would fit. Duvall from ENT, Garrovick, Garth. It's quite possible neither Duvall nor Garrovick was highly decorated. Perhaps Garth wasn't, either, despite being famous?

    What's more interesting here is that there are no captains we would not know of. There has never been an exhaustive discussion of "all the heroic and famous skippers of past Starfleet" in any episode or movie, so there would certainly be room for us to suddenly learn that, say, Captain John Dunsel was immensely important to UFP history (even if we're told zip about what Dunsel actually did).

    Timo Saloniemi
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  7. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    In the Romulan War novels, he was the captain of the NX-03 Challenger, the first Starfleet ship with a self destruct, which he was forced to use before the ship saw any real action, losing an entire NX class starship, the 3rd ever made, in a total tactical fuckup that leant his name to the history books as the benchmark of fucksups and uselessness for over 100 years.
     
  8. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ...That was ROY Dunsel, tho. Perhaps his son made good?

    The list is also racist, consisting purely of humans (as far as we can tell). It would be odd for Saru to limit the parameters that way, so it may be taken to indicate factual favoritism within Starfleet. But in that case Jonathan Archer's decorations need to come from after 2161, because that's the first time humans can truly start favoring their own here, with Vulcan and Andorian skippers no doubt being much more accomplished at any prior date (for their much greater exposure to the art of being starship captain).

    Also, Archer and the hypothetical T'Superior and Sh'alsoran are all from cultures that would become UFP members. All continue to serve as skippers beyond 2161. Only Archer gets to the list, though. So possibly only UFP Starfleet decorations count, rather than earlier accomplishments. (Or are alien names biased towards the hind end of the English alphabet?)

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  9. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Walrus Premium Member

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    It was a list of five, not every hero the Federation had.
     
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  10. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That's not Edison, it's Roy Dunsel. Thus establishing the Academy slang term "dunsel" as shown in The Ultimate Computer.
     
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  11. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    There was a USS Edison in the first episode, part of the same fleet that had the USS Shran.

    Might have been named for Thomas, might have been named for Balthazaar.
     
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  12. jespah

    jespah Rear Admiral Moderator

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    Given that Dr. Culber mentions having to assist with an Andorian tonsillectomy, I hope the Andorians aren't too far off from what we've seen (although I wouldn't blame them if the effects department tried to make the hardware lighter).

    I like the idea of the show, currently, being more of an ENT sequel than a TOS prequel. I imagine the ratio of ENT to TOS will change as the timeline of the show advances.
     
  13. SPCTRE

    SPCTRE Badass Admiral

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    since I haven't seen a screen posted in here yet

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, the person I quoted was talking about Dunsel too.
     
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  15. Stephen!

    Stephen! Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Only five. Starfleet seems rather stingy when it comes to decorating their captains.
     
  16. SPCTRE

    SPCTRE Badass Admiral

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    "decorated" or even "most highly decorated" leaves a ton of wiggle room tho, there might be all kinds of lower tier "decorated" levels below that one
     
  17. Paul Weaver

    Paul Weaver Commodore Premium Member

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    3 of those 5 were (or are) captains of the USS Enterprise.
     
  18. SPCTRE

    SPCTRE Badass Admiral

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    <cut to investigative journalist working on headline/>

    "Nepotism and Collusion: Starfleet a USS Enterprise Fanclub?"
     
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  19. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's not really "only five", it's supposedly the first five in alphabetical order.

    That is, the skippers listed here are basically all the known UFP Starfleet skippers from before 2256 that one can fit between A and G, skipping just Garrovick and Garth; we should be thankful that the list does skip some known skippers as "not highly decorated". And that after G, the list skips all the way to P, again suggesting that merely attending doesn't make you an automatic winner.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  20. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    April and Decker were Commodores during the time we saw them in TOS/TAS, they may already hold this rank at the time he asked. Archer became the Federation President after long phases of historical significance as well.

    *If* the Enterprise is the flagship, or at least the current lead Constitution class of the war effort then Pike is important right now and will be promoted to fleet captain at the end of this tour (or Commodore, I can't remember which is first).

    Georgiou captained a vessel on the front lines and could have been given a posthumous award as well as her captaincy and her actions in trying to prevent the BotBS.

    The computer, possibly filtering the results specifically for Saru based on him or parameters he already uses for searches, has given him the top 5 captains that obtained Commodore rank or acclaim.

    That sort of implies teir 2 are captains of similar significance but never wanted or attained any higher authority in the fleet, like Garth, Edison, etc who chose to keep captaining.