News Rapp: Spacey Made Sexual Advance Toward Me

[galad2003]

It seems that in the Hollywood "wonderland" everyone knew everything,"but" people thought it was ok to tolerate predators.
And mind you this all makes fuss because of the whole celebrities thingy, I do not want to imagine what is going on in business or schools and colleges..

I don't know about Academia but why would you think the business world is worse than Hollywood? The business world has been dealing with this crap for years which is why we have had sexual harassment training for decades. Hollywood has had a pass for so long because it is such a small, tight knit community run by a few power players and people are willing to stay silent for fear of having your career ruined.

Business is so large it is easy to change jobs and melt away to another job. While there is always fear and pressure not to come forward, there many more ways to come forward in the business world. I do think this generation of people will be more aware of sexual harassment and more issues will come to light in every sector, not just Hollywood. But I really think Hollywood was an anachronistic hold back and escaped this for so long, which is why we are hearing about this now.

Hollywood is in desperate need of more high profile female directors, producers and studio heads and for being so full of liberals has really fallen behind in that area.

 

[XCV330]

Hollywood still honors Woody Allen and Roman Polanski. The same people who suddenly denounce Weinstein because the tide turned and it is popular to do so will still stand in applause for those two scumbags and try to get a part in their films.

 

[Mudd]

The accusations against Allen are substantially different than Polanski's conviction in a court of law.

 

[XCV330]

The only use for Allen after he married his stepdaughter was as mulch. whether he was convicted of anything or not.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

The accusations against Allen are substantially different than Polanski's conviction in a court of law.

Not by much, there is a myriad of facts surrounding Allen and his "alleged" abuse. The man is a tolerated creeper, a well known tolerate creeper.

 

[Mudd]

Not by much, there is a myriad of facts surrounding Allen and his "alleged" abuse. The man is a tolerated creeper, a well known tolerate creeper.

Allen marrying his partner's adopted daughter is pretty creepy; the other allegations against him were investigated and dismissed. Polanski, OTOH is a convicted felon.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Would you like to go into those facts?

Polanski is a convicted felon.

There is a mountain of them and being at work I can comment here and there but can't put together a long organized post but again, the difference between the two being a conviction isn't a huge difference as far as information being available that a rational person needs to make a decision about trust, good will and normal morality.

I expect courts to rigidly stick to certain principles for good reason, I expect regular people when presented with facts to make "reasonable" decisions. Allen is a sick person, and the people in that industry who revere him all know better. Maybe the average joe doesn't, but the people who work with and around him by now know.

 

[Mudd]

There is a mountain of them

See my previous post.

We're back to the subject of gossip versus criminal behavior.

 

[XCV330]

See my previous post.

We're back to the subject of gossip versus criminal behavior.

The accusations of Dylan Farrow, Rowan Farrow and Mia Farrow do not constitute gossip. As someone who was molested as a toddler by a popular minister (my male parental unit) I learned much later that others knew of his behavior but everyone conspired to keep quiet about it. It wasn't rumor, it just never made it to court.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

See my previous post.

We're back to the subject of gossip versus criminal behavior.

Information in depositions, findings by dr's, documented eye witness accounts, etc..etc..etc..etc..

this has all been documented and recorded. truth takes reading and research and effort. There simply "not being a conviction" isn't enough to just stop thinking. Like I said the people in that industry working with and around the guy should know better, there is enough to make a reasonable rational decision as a person.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

The accusations of Dylan Farrow, Rowan Farrow and Mia Farrow do not constitute gossip. As someone who was molested as a toddler by a popular minister (my male parental unit) I learned much later that others knew of his behavior but everyone conspired to keep quiet about it. It wasn't rumor, it just never made it to court.

Not to mention the eye witness accounts from caregivers instructed not to leave them together, examinations by the child's doctor, his being in therapy for this very issue comments by reviewing judges etc..etc..etc..

 

[Mudd]

. It wasn't rumor, it just never made it to court.

The accusations, leveled during a custody battle, were investigated by New York State authorities and not deemed credible.

This is easily distinguished from "tried on a felony and convicted."

 

[XCV330]

No, he was not tried and convicted, and as with most predators, the opportunity for that will have passed, however it was far from rumor.

"Judge Elliott Wilk, the presiding judge in Allen’s custody suit against Farrow, concluded that there is “no credible evidence to support Mr. Allen’s contention that Ms. Farrow coached Dylan or that Ms. Farrow acted upon a desire for revenge against him for seducing Soon-Yi."

The state attorney said he had a case against Woody Allen but he was not prepared to harm Dylan by putting her on the stand. There is much more about that, but I'm not going to further take this thread off the rails. I can't tell if you actively want to defend the scumbag or or if you just like playing devil's advocate.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

The accusations, leveled during a custody battle, were investigated by New York State authorities and not deemed credible.

This is easily distinguished from "tried on a felony and convicted."

That is very much not true. The accusations were never found to be "not credible" the legal system functioned on definite proof = this or that outcome. Not meeting that level or proof does not constitute found to be not credible.

In fact the key piece of evidence Woody would trumpet in his favor was found to be not credible for several reason, destruction of notes, inadequacies of direct contact or interviews with Dylan,

There is no doubt it was a cluster fk, but as someone who's poured over whatever available I could find over the years, I find it frightening anyone would trust that man.

 

[Kor]

Is trial and conviction always the final and correct word?

There was another case when CPS determined that there was enough evidence of sexual abuse of a foster kid under a certain individual's care that said individual should be prohibited from ever being a foster parent again. However, circumstances prevented the prosecutor's office from charging said individual, so there was no trial and conviction.

So who's right?

BTW, said individual was forced to resign from his office as mayor of a west coast city when this came to light decades later, and four other sources stepped forward with similar allegations.

Kor

 

[Noname Given]

Is trial and conviction always the final and correct word?

There was another case when CPS determined that there was enough evidence of sexual abuse of a foster kid under a certain individual's care that said individual should be prohibited from ever being a foster parent again. However, circumstances prevented the prosecutor's office from charging said individual, so there was no trial and conviction.

So who's right?

BTW, said individual was forced to resign from his office as mayor of a west coast city when this came to light decades later, and four other sources stepped forward with similar allegations.

Kor

There should always be corroborated and physical evidence (where possible) and due process.

 

[donners22]

There should always be corroborated and physical evidence (where possible) and due process.

It is important to keep in mind that in the substantial majority of cases, there is no corroboration or physical/forensic evidence. Nor is there typically resistance or contemporaneous complaint. There are many misconceptions about these sort of offences.

Is trial and conviction always the final and correct word?

Having worked in sex offences law for over a decade, I'd say clearly not.

Judges and juries make mistakes - when the former are appellate judges, the consequences are huge. It took a recent case of a TV actor to overturn a dreadful precedent in my state which led to goodness knows how many dubious acquittals.

The system has weaknesses, particularly in managing cognitively impaired or mentally fragile complainants.

Misconceptions and prejudices abound in society, and those influence juries in their decision-making.

I think and hope that things work reasonably well the majority of the time, but it's definitely not the final and correct word.

 

[Noname Given]

It is important to keep in mind that in the substantial majority of cases, there is no corroboration or physical/forensic evidence. Nor is there typically resistance or contemporaneous complaint. There are many misconceptions about these sort of offences.



Having worked in sex offences law for over a decade, I'd say clearly not.

Judges and juries make mistakes - when the former are appellate judges, the consequences are huge. It took a recent case of a TV actor to overturn a dreadful precedent in my state which led to goodness knows how many dubious acquittals.

The system has weaknesses, particularly in managing cognitively impaired or mentally fragile complainants.

Misconceptions and prejudices abound in society, and those influence juries in their decision-making.

I think and hope that things work reasonably well the majority of the time, but it's definitely not the final and correct word.

^^^
That's why what we have is a 'Legal' system (and not a 'Justice' system.) Again, I understand what you're saying but as soon as we make an exception where "Oh, if you're accuse of a a forced sex assault, we'll ALWAYS believe the 'victims' word and convict/sentence based on that..."

Again, whenever this type of thing occurs it's horrible; but if it's your word against someone else's and that's it (no other evidence whatsoever) - IMO that's not enough to convict or label someone a sex offender. And again, it doesn't make it 'right' - but once you go down the "You can be convicted SOLEY on a person's word alone..." <--- That's not a place I want to live/justice system I want to be judged under.

 

[Mudd]

Is trial and conviction always the final and correct word?

Well, it's got definite advantages over rumor, allegation and mob rule.

 

[Krandor]

Well, evidently issues with Spcey were ongoing.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/02/media/house-of-cards-kevin-spacey-harassment/index.html