News Rapp: Spacey Made Sexual Advance Toward Me

[XCV330]

Another sad thing to this case is Rosie O'Donnell coming out and saying, like she's some greek chorus, that she knew about Spacey all along. Oh yeah? Rosie wasn't some weak vulnerable new actress whose career would have been killed if she talked. She had a talk show. She could help make or break an actor's career. If she knew Spacey was Rapey, she should have said something.

 

[Bgt]

Another sad thing to this case is Rosie O'Donnell coming out and saying, like she's some greek chorus, that she knew about Spacey all along. Oh yeah? Rosie wasn't some weak vulnerable new actress whose career would have been killed if she talked. She had a talk show. She could help make or break an actor's career. If she knew Spacey was Rapey, she should have said something.

It seems that in the Hollywood "wonderland" everyone knew everything,"but" people thought it was ok to tolerate predators.
And mind you this all makes fuss because of the whole celebrities thingy, I do not want to imagine what is going on in business or schools and colleges..

 

[Tesophius]

The world is a sick place, I bet the share of people that get rapey at some point is much higher than what we want to acknowledge. It must be terrifying having kids and knowing the dangers that are out there.

 

[CardassianAssassin]

Another sad thing to this case is Rosie O'Donnell coming out and saying, like she's some greek chorus, that she knew about Spacey all along. Oh yeah?

She’s just trying to feed on the drama and make herself relevant again. She’s a show business parasite, just lacking the redeeming features parasites usually have.

 

[T'Bonz]

No one wants men to be falsely accused and as someone who was abused, I have nothing but contempt for the women, "scared" or not, who make false accusations. It makes it harder for genuine victims to get justice.

It's tough for innocent men - things can go sideways when they've done nothing wrong.

I'm glad people are talking about this, but will there be genuine change in Hollywood when it comes to the casting couch or worse yet, child sexual abuse? Honestly? I rather doubt it. The sad fact is that some men with money or power will abuse that position. Plus - they have the money to lawyer up to beat charges.

This has been going on in Hollywood since, well, a long time. Why a parent today would put their child in show business is beyond me. The price for potential stardom could be rather high. Almost every time I read a bio about some former child star, it usually features drugs (cocaine especially) and sex with older more powerful men.

Even back in the day. Look at Judy Garland and drugs (first given to the slim woman to make her lose more weight). And little 12-year-old Shirley Temple had a producer expose himself to her. She got off without terrible things happening, but what the hell? She was TWELVE.

 

[Cyke101]

Another sad thing to this case is Rosie O'Donnell coming out and saying, like she's some greek chorus, that she knew about Spacey all along. Oh yeah? Rosie wasn't some weak vulnerable new actress whose career would have been killed if she talked. She had a talk show. She could help make or break an actor's career. If she knew Spacey was Rapey, she should have said something.

I'm not O'Donnell's biggest fan, but when Courtney Love even tried just a fraction of calling out Weinstein, her film career was essentially over. After a string of starring in leading roles or prominent supporting roles, Creative Artists Agency blacklisted her, and for the past dozen-plus years she's been doing bit parts and cameos. And O'Donnell herself had been under so much drama to begin with (of her own doing, admittedly) with a myriad of other issues that I'm afraid even if she did, it would just be chalked up once more to, "Oh, Rosie's just stirring trouble again. It must be a day that ends in Y."

Terry Crews was assaulted by a male producer last year as well. Crews, who's been in big budget Hollywood films and critically acclaimed sitcoms and a very public face for marketing, kept it under wraps because he was afraid that coming out would irreparably damage his career. Despite all that power and a very prominent career that just keeps getting better and better, he remained silent out of fear.

Seth MacFarlane could get away with dropping occasional jokes and quips about it because it mostly flew under the radar, he wields considerable power in Holllywood (generally you can't fire yourself, especially if you're a proven moneymaker), and yeah, he's a white male comedian -- that affords him paradoxically both safety from repercussion and also certain lack of credibility when he does stand up for someone. He's also younger than most of the power players, which means he doesn't come from that same rape culture as execs that are of Weinstein's generation, and so he's more comfortable than others in calling it out.

Again, I don't condone silence, but the way the industry's set up with all the strings attached is the stuff of conspiracy movies, only in reality, tragically. That needs to be dismantled. Getting power players like MacFarlane on board is tough, but that's one way of calling out other power players. And even then, you'd have to get them to listen to the victimized.

 

[Kor]

Not sure how credible they area, but similar allegations against Spacey have sometimes popped up on reddit over the years from people who claimed to be close to the show business industry.

Kor

 

[mswood]

Sometging to keep in mind, when people wonder where the parents were. Parents let kids around people who can be predators all the time. From relatives, family friends, clergy, teachers, coached, ect, ect, ect. Patents even today dont assume every adult their child encounters is soneone that is a threat. And my parents had no idea of what might be at cast parties, until i told them about my first cast party in college. Of course i have been as a kid at parties both at home and at family friends, relatives, and coworkers that all had kids and adults with alcohol. No one ever considered that it might be risky. As a people we are a lot more aware of possible risks thans to so many news stories of all sorts about abuse.

 

[cultcross]

Sometging to keep in mind, when people wonder where the parents were. Parents let kids around people who can be predators all the time. From relatives, family friends, clergy, teachers, coached, ect, ect, ect. Patents even today dont assume every adult their child encounters is soneone that is a threat. And my parents had no idea of what might be at cast parties, until i told them about my first cast party in college. Of course i have been as a kid at parties both at home and at family friends, relatives, and coworkers that all had kids and adults with alcohol. No one ever considered that it might be risky. As a people we are a lot more aware of possible risks thans to so many news stories of all sorts about abuse.

An excellent point. "Why were they exposed to an abuser/risky scenario?" is the same hindsight based victim blaming as the Madeleine McCann case. It's easy to see the risk after its come to pass.

 

[Noname Given]

An excellent point. "Why were they exposed to an abuser/risky scenario?" is the same hindsight based victim blaming as the Madeleine McCann case. It's easy to see the risk after its come to pass.

I don't see how wondering if parents are responsible is akin to "victim b laming" - sorry. And yes, there are all kinds of parties that involve children and adults, but suffice it to say, I as a parent would be leary of letting a 14 year old go to either a Hollywood cast wrap or Broadway production wrap party without knowing who else might be there - IE were there other underage cast, and will their be supervision of any kind.

Again, given what I've read, yes, Kevin Spacey probably DID do this utterly disgusting thing; BUT I'm sorry to say, the Parent s also share responsibility if they allow a minor child to attend without supervision. That DOESN'T make it right or excusable IN ANY WAY, but perhaps he shouldn't have been their in the first place, and if he sneaked out or lied to his parents so he could go; then that is something he himself has to live with too.

 

[cultcross]

Not knowing anything about the circumstances of the party, it's quite easy to imagine a scenario in which there appeared to be little or no risk. A teenager going to a party hosted by a trusted adult is not exactly a rare scenario, nor something that indicates poor parenting.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Not knowing anything about the circumstances of the party, it's quite easy to imagine a scenario in which there appeared to be little or no risk. A teenager going to a party hosted by a trusted adult is not exactly a rare scenario, nor something that indicates poor parenting.

unless any of those adults were friends known to the parents i dont consider that trusted at all

 

[Tesophius]

I can't imagine going to an adult party when I was 14 years old unless it was some kind of a family affair. When you're 14 even 17 year olds seem old. The age difference is far more pronounced. It's fucking weird.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

At first I wasn't going to reply to this ridiculousness. It's honestly not worth it. But, hell, why not.

I'm not sure I understand your logic here. Even in your anecdotal experience, you know three women who have been sexually assaulted, are aware of the percentage of survivors who are open enough for you to know about it, and yet you question survivors so much you don't speak out, on the grounds you knew one person who lied once?

I don't feel the need to speak out publically, no. I try to stay away from social media in my daily life as a rule. To the three women I know personally that have been affected by things like this, I did reach out, AS I HAVE DONE MANY TIMES IN THE PAST, UP TO, INCLUDING, AND AFTER THEY ORIGINALLY TOLD ME. Shouldn't that be enough? Does my chosen "silence" on accusations against celebrities/people I don't know automatically mean complicity or approval of the behavior of certain men who can't control themselves around women? No, it does not. I just choose to not to try anyone in the court of public opinion. Especially someone I don't even know. Harvey Weinstein is a douchebag. Why do I need to register for Twitter just to say that, just so I can be counted among the men who aren't somehow "accepting" the "culture"?

And as for my personal experience with that one woman who lied in college, I think it's perfectly natural for that instance to plant doubt in one's mind. As I said, I do wish to believe every accusation. But we shouldn't forget that lying also exists

And[....]thus proliferate the culture of silence and acceptance. In fact you managed to turn it around into how downtrodden men are as a result. Consider whether the people deserving your sympathy and solidarity here are the indignant men.

The culture of silence? Acceptance? Acceptance of WHAT....sexual assault? Where did I say that? I didn't say that at all, and no one with half a brain accepts that. What you're doing is assuming. You assume because "culture of silence" is a buzz-term. SILENCE DOES NOT MEAN COMPLICITY and it DOES NOT MEAN ACCEPTANCE, and it DOES NOT MEAN PROLIFERATION. That's just blogosphere-regurgitated bullshit. Linking silence with acceptance is not just ridiculously stupid -- it is a blanket, unfair accusation.

Unless, however, you know personally of cases of abuse, and choose to say nothing....like the people who knew about Weinstein and said nothing. Or the people who knew about Sandusky and either said nothing or covered it up. If you know your boss is routinely harassing female employees and you say nothing, you're complicit. You accept. You sweep it under the rug. THEN you're part of the problem. If you're someone who knows that a teacher at your school is abusing kids and you don't speak out, you're part of the problem. If you're just someone who happens to be a male, why should your silence automatically mean you "accept" abusive behavior just because some writers on the internet deem it to be so? Why does it mean that you're lumped-in with certain men who have a problem? "Culture of [fill in the blank here]" surely is a useful blanket term, isn't it?

So yes, I do get annoyed that men as a whole are seemingly lumped in with certain men who obviously have problems with their behavior, with basic morals, with crossing personal barriers. But that doesn't mean I accept violence against women.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Another sad thing to this case is Rosie O'Donnell coming out and saying, like she's some greek chorus, that she knew about Spacey all along. Oh yeah? Rosie wasn't some weak vulnerable new actress whose career would have been killed if she talked. She had a talk show. She could help make or break an actor's career. If she knew Spacey was Rapey, she should have said something.

To what possible end? Unless Spacey assaulted her personally, nothing she said would be of any relevance. She can't call the police and press charges based on 2nd hand information. It would just come off as a baseless accusation that would make Rosie look worse than Spacey. Sure, she knew. But what could she prove?

 

[Mudd]

To what possible end? Unless Spacey assaulted her personally, nothing she said would be of any relevance. She can't call the police and press charges based on 2nd hand information. It would just come off as a baseless accusation that would make Rosie look worse than Spacey. Sure, she knew. But what could she prove?

Well yeah, a Hollywood person going public with Hollywood gossip is just that. Charges by someone involved are a whole different level of important.

 

[cultcross]

Indeed, I've never been comfortable with the "everyone knew" thing that always appears after these things. Sometimes, I'm sure it's accurate. But a lot of the time it is just confirmation bias and 20/20 hindsight - is there any famous man there hasn't been a sleazy rumor or off colour joke about at some point? Many of them are baseless or have a whiff of homophobia about them (equating homophobia with 'liking young boys' is a Hollywood comedy trope)
A duty to speak to is limited in my opinion, to those with direct knowledge of events.

 

[galad2003]

I think if you know but aren't involved you can't do much except encourage the victim to come forward if you know them. Otherwise you have to stay silent until someone comes forward then you can try to corroborate. Odds are you have no tangible proof so there is no much one can do as a thrid party. otherwsie people will ignore you and then you face legal repercussions yourself if you don't have proof.

The exception is what McFarlane did, he had a platform to make jokes about it to try to get it into public awareness. He can't really be sued over it because he can fall back on the "it's a joke thing."

 

[Mudd]

The exception is what McFarlane did, he had a platform to make jokes about it to try to get it into public awareness. He can't really be sued over it because he can fall back on the "it's a joke thing."

To be honest, though, he was doing that thing of repeating Hollywood gossip in a public forum. Same with Tina Fey and her Cosby joke.

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[cultcross]

Exactly. I bet if you sat down and looked into it, nearly every major name in Hollywood has had an off colour joke made about them in a comedy show. The Simpsons, Family Guy and South Park would rack up quite a few by themselves. It's not the comedy writers' fault if that joke turns out to be a bit close to the truth.