Ranks of characters

[Scargate]

I'm currently reading Taking Wing (Star Trek: Titan #1). I'm slow on the uptake. But a certain character, really early on, advances in rank from Lieutenant to Lieutenant Commander to Commander over a two week period. Did that make anyone else scratch their head when reading it? Especially when we have characters like Harry Kim in the universe.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

If you mean Vale, I would assume that she was up for promotion to LT CMDR as Security Chief, E-E but hadn't been processed yet, and Riker chose to promote her to CMDR as First Officer, USS Titan so as to avoid 'chain-of-command' issues with Deanna and Xin.

 

[The Wormhole]

I'm currently reading Taking Wing (Star Trek: Titan #1). I'm slow on the uptake. But a certain character, really early on, advances in rank from Lieutenant to Lieutenant Commander to Commander over a two week period.

Good thing onscreen Trek would never do anything that preposterous. Oh, wait a minute...

 

[dauntless]

Probably not in the slightest. After all, Commanders Pulaski and McCoy adamantly claimed they were not qualified Bridge Officers, while Lieutenant Bashir may very well have been.

Timo Saloniemi

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't McCoy always a Lt Cmdr, not full Commander?

 

[Christopher]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't McCoy always a Lt Cmdr, not full Commander?

In TOS, yes -- Spock was the only full commander (two solid sleeve stripes), and McCoy and Scott were both Lieutenant Commanders (one solid and one broken stripe). http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x24hd/turnaboutintruderhd1434.jpg

However, it looks like they both may have gotten promoted to full commander during TAS, if you go by how their rank stripes are drawn. Looking over the screencaps, it could be inconsistent within an episode, but it looks like the artists mostly drew McCoy with solid stripes, and Scotty started out with a broken stripe but then got two solid stripes consistently as the series went on. That was probably just to make them easier to draw, but it can be taken as evidence of promotion. And both of them are full commanders by TMP, so it makes sense that McCoy was promoted during the 5YM, before he retired.

 

[dauntless]

In TOS, yes -- Spock was the only full commander (two solid sleeve stripes), and McCoy and Scott were both Lieutenant Commanders (one solid and one broken stripe). http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x24hd/turnaboutintruderhd1434.jpg

However, it looks like they both may have gotten promoted to full commander during TAS, if you go by how their rank stripes are drawn. Looking over the screencaps, it could be inconsistent within an episode, but it looks like the artists mostly drew McCoy with solid stripes, and Scotty started out with a broken stripe but then got two solid stripes consistently as the series went on. That was probably just to make them easier to draw, but it can be taken as evidence of promotion. And both of them are full commanders by TMP, so it makes sense that McCoy was promoted during the 5YM, before he retired.

Thanks.

I'd forgotten that he did make Admiral by Encounter at Farpoint.

 

[Little_kingsfan]

Hey, everybody, I've got another question about Starfleet enlisted ranks - many enlisted crewmembers (particularly in SCE but later on in other stories) are simply referred to as Crewman [Name]. On Enterprise, the United Earth Starfleet has First, Second, and Third Class Crewmen. However, one story referred to Crewman Bart Faulwell of the da Vinci was referred to as a Petty Officer 1st Class, and Crewman Vance Hawkins was promoted directly to Chief Petty Officer, so are all crewmen also Petty Officers or is it more along the lines of calling a Navy enlisted man/woman "Seaman"? And if it turns out that some of those crewmen on the da Vinci (specifically but not limited to Faulwell, Abromowitz, P8 Blue, Stevens, Solomon, Rennan Konya (before his promotion to Ensign and assignment to the Enterprise-E), Ellec Krotine (either before or after her transfer to Titan, and Makk Vinx) are in fact Petty Officers rather than simply able seamen/crewmen, what grade are they?

Thanks for your help again!

 

[The Wormhole]

I've always assumed Crewman was basically the Starfleet answer to Seaman.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

The simplest explanation is that "crewman" is the generic term (split into third class (aka trainee), second class (aka able crewman) and first class) and CFCs (and potentially CSCs) can be appointed (or laterally promoted) to Petty Officer if they are assigned a leadership position.

Comparasions to the above could be drawn with the US Army Specialist and Corporal ranks, and the obselete Sergeant-Senior Airman pairing in the USAF.

 

[Little_kingsfan]

I've always assumed Crewman was basically the Starfleet answer to Seaman.

So did I, but I was hoping to find out if the authors felt the same way. Plus, I've got a long list of Starfleet characters by their (current/last known) ranks and the generic crewman list is longer than the rest of the enlisted ranks combined (although I've thrown the doctors without known ranks such as Tony Leone from Endeavour onto that particular list even though they're officers), with Chief Petty Officers coming in second and each of the list of Petty Officers has like three characters apiece (PO1s Salagho Threx (U.S.S. Sagittarius) and Fatih Yüksel (U.S.S. Enterprise), PO2s James Cambias, Tina Lawton, Reiko Onami, and Spring Rain on Still Water (all U.S.S. Enterprise), and Karen Cahow (U.S.S. Sagittarius), and PO3s Cron Emalra’ehn and Hrrii’ush Uuvu’it (both U.S.S. Enterprise) and Torvin (U.S.S. Sagittarius)). If characters such as K'chak'!'op, Stevens, Abramowitz, Faulwell, or Vinx have a petty officer's rank (or even a Crewman 1st, 2nd, or 3rd Class), I would very much like to know and would greatly appreciate the insight.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

In USN terms, I would assume that a vanilla 'Crewman' would be the equivalent of a rated E-3 or Royal Navy Able Seaman. For example K'chak'!'op would an Electronics Technican Fireman (E3) rather than a Fireman (E3); Abramowitz doesn't have an exact analogue but combines Legalman Seaman, Public Affairs Specialist Seaman, Hospitalman Hospitalman or maybe even Intelligence Specialist Fireman; Faulwell appears to incorporate Intelligence Specialist Fireman and Cryptological Technician Seaman; Maxx Vinx would be a Master at Arms Seaman or a Maritime Law Enforcement Specialist Seaman (given that Starfleet security can arrest civilians which USCG MEs can but USN MAs mostly can't.

NB Tina Lawton is actually id'ed as a Yeoman Third Class (meaning she should be a PO3) but her concurrent ID as being only nineteen means that IMO it's more likely that she's an E3 Yeoman Seaman equivalent at best not a PO3. Certainly there's no reason that she should outrank TNG-era Crewman First Class Tarses (who's a four-tour veteran) and probably broadly equivalent to a US Army Specialist, USAF Senior Airman or RN Leading Seaman.

 

[Sgt_G]

Maybe she was in Junior ROTC or had some college credits or was a Basic Training and/or Tech School Honor Grad and thus was bumped up in rank. Also, she may have enlisted at age 17 and thus had 2+ years in service. She could have come in as an E-3 Crewman First Class for any of the reason above and made E-4 on the first try.

 

[Little_kingsfan]

NB Tina Lawton is actually id'ed as a Yeoman Third Class (meaning she should be a PO3) but her concurrent ID as being only nineteen means that IMO it's more likely that she's an E3 Yeoman Seaman equivalent at best not a PO3. Certainly there's no reason that she should outrank TNG-era Crewman First Class Tarses (who's a four-tour veteran) and probably broadly equivalent to a US Army Specialist, USAF Senior Airman or RN Leading Seaman.

Actually, Yeoman Lawton was a PO3 in "Charlie X", but in the book A Choice of Catastrophes (written by Michael Schuster and Steve Mollmann), she had been promoted to PO2. Since that book is set at a later date, I used it instead.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Actually, Yeoman Lawton was a PO3 in "Charlie X", but in the book A Choice of Catastrophes (written by Michael Schuster and Steve Mollmann), she had been promoted to PO2. Since that book is set at a later date, I used it instead.

I didn't know that she'd appeared again, I stand corrected.

 

[Little_kingsfan]

I'm still hoping for some feedback from the authors, but I appreciate Shamrock Holmes and Sgt. G's responses. Thanks for trying to help me make sense of some of these Starfleet ranks.

 

[Little_kingsfan]

Hey, everybody, I've got another question - or rather, a rephrasing of one I think I posted earlier upthread (without going through the entire thing again): many of the various security officers, engineers, and helmsmen seen on the Enterprise-E during Star Trek: A Time to... and subsequently TNG Relaunch were all referred to as Lieutenants. Are any of them Lt. (j.g.)s, or start out that way and then receive promotions?

Also, I admit I was a little confused when Lt. Smrhova was promoted to Chief of Security over some of those same security officers (including but in no way limited to Braddock, Davila, and T'Sona) that have been Lieutenants since 2378-79, considering she was a fresh-out-of-the-Academy security officer during her first appearance in 2380 (or was it 2381, just before the Bog Invasion?) - was there an in-story reason for that or just creative license?

Oh, and one more rank-related question: when, if ever, will Senior Chief O'Brien receive his promotion to Master Chief Petty Officer? He's been "stuck" at Senior Chief for nearly 20 years (I believe he was promoted at the start of Deep Space Nine/2369 and it's now 2386 as of the most current novel).

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Oh, and one more rank-related question: when, if ever, will Senior Chief O'Brien receive his promotion to Master Chief Petty Officer? He's been "stuck" at Senior Chief for nearly 20 years (I believe he was promoted at the start of Deep Space Nine/2369 and it's now 2386 as of the most current novel).

Given that O'Brien has plenty of "time in service", realistically the only thing that could be holding him back is the size of the command. His original rank of Chief or maybe Senior Chief might have been enough for the est 300 Starfleet personnel assigned c. The Emissary, but apparently the Frontier-class has a population of ~13,000 and therefore a crew equivalent of at least a couple of Galaxy-class Explorers so it would make sense the senior enlisted advisor would rate at least one Master Chief.

 

[valkyrie013]

Had a thought and looked up the Navy time in service, time in grade guidelines, and figured I'd do a couple of caracters and see how they shape up.
https://work.chron.com/navy-promotion-times-grade-requirements-11028.html
where I got my info, right or not.
Its not exact as Navy isn't starfleet, and some up and commers might break the mold. so take with a grain of salt

So from Ensign to Lt jg is 2 years in service/grade. Doesn't meen an automatic promotion, but even given some linency, the "Always ensigns of Kim, Sato, Merrywether shoud have been bumped up by season 3.

Lt jg to Lt is another 2 years in grade/ 4 years service.
So Worf and Laforge look correct in that regard, Also means Kim should have been atleast an Lt at the end of road.. owell.. And Sato and Merryweather should have been up for full Lt. by the start of Season 5.. ish..

Lt to Lt Cmd is a bit more, 3 years time in grade/ 9-11 years time in service.
So Worf looks about right, though Time in grade was around 7 years.. he did have some entries in his paperwork. so probably slower than it could have been. Laforge was a hard charger.. from Lt to Lt Cmd in 1 year ( though he was a chief engineer.. ) Checkov is promoted to this inbetween Tmp and Khan, where he was a full Comannder.

Lt Cmd to Comander., 3 years time in grade/ 15 years Time in service.
With minimal time in grade time, its 10 years to Comander, So here we have Data, who should have been a full commander by the end of the Tng, Maybe even Laforge, definatly by Tng movie era.

Commander to Captain, 3 years time in grade, 21 years time in service.
Now by minimal time in grade, its 13 years to Captain.. This coinsides with Kirk being a young captain, and even Pike. Now at this time level, Uhura, Sulu, Checkov all should have been elegbale around the time of Khan, 2285. Checkov was already an exec on the Reliant. Sulu and Uhura were commanders. Riker should have taken a captaincy by the end of Season 3 Tng.. maybe even Data..

I know, having a steady crew for the show is more important than logic of promotions, but showing people growing and moving on would have been nice aswell, I mean Star Trek 6 with not only Sulu but Checkov be captains would have been nice

 

[The Wormhole]

Its not exact as Navy isn't starfleet, and some up and commers might break the mold.

Another factor to consider is that promotions are going to be more rapid during wartime, due to heavy losses creating vacancies in the ranks. So really, at least Riker, Data and Geordi should have been promoted and transferred off the Enterprise before Nemesis. Probably even before Insurrection.

 

[Little_kingsfan]

Here's something to consider:

Will Riker graduated from the Academy as an Ensign in 2357. He was very likely promoted after the loss of the Pegasus at Captain Pressman's suggestion in 2358, giving him anywhere from six to eighteen months in grade approximately. He was a Lieutenant in 2359 when he was assigned to the Starfleet Annex/Federation Embassy on Betazed (it was one of those, but I can't quite remember off the top of my head) and later as Operations Officer on the U.S.S. Potemkin when he was duplicated in 2361. Immediately after that assignment, he was promoted to Lieutenant Commander and made XO of the Hood, and three years later, he became XO of the Enterprise-D, which came with a promotion to Commander (total years: 7). Less than a year into his tour of duty on the Enterprise, he was offered command of a science ship (which may or may not have come with a promotion to O-6 Captain, although it was implied), and he was offered another two or three commands while serving on the Enterprise-D and -E. Finally, in November 2379, after about 22 years in service (15 of which he was a Commander), he was promoted to Captain of the Titan and just under six years after that (September 2385), F-Adm. Akaar promoted him to Rear Admiral.

Meanwhile, Geordi La Forge also graduated from the Academy in 2357, but was still a Lieutenant, junior grade when he was assigned to the Enterprise-D in 2364. He did receive his promotion to Lieutenant in 2365 when Captain Picard named him Chief Engineer, and he was promoted to Lieutenant Commander the following year. However, he wasn't promoted to Commander until 2380. While on assignment to the U.S.S. Challenger, Geordi was promoted to Captain in 2383 and retained the rank when he returned to the Enterprise, but took a voluntary demotion back down to Commander when Starfleet implied that he would be forced to transfer to another billet, which is where he is as of 2386 ("Available Light").

Data's career path (at least according to "The Buried Age") took longer because of some (unwitting) prejudice against androids: three years after graduating from the Academy, Data was a Lieutenant assigned as a starbase records officer. Because his superiors didn't know what exactly to do with him and because he was exceptional at his job and because Data himself didn't know any better, he served in the same assignment for about 12 years - by himself, as more and more crewmembers transferred out of the department because they honestly weren't needed there with Data already there - before Captain Picard recruited him in 2360 for a special assignment. Upon completion of the assignment, Data was promoted to Lieutenant Commander and made Chief Science Officer of the U.S.S. Trieste before joining the Enterprise-D as the Ops Officer in 2364 - and according to "A Time to...", Data was about to be promoted to Commander and take over for Riker as Captain Picard's XO on the Enterprise-E when Riker took command of Titan, but then he died (and was later resurrected in "Cold Equations").

Anyways, the moral of the story: it took Riker 7 years to become XO on the Enterprise-D and another 21 to make Rear Admiral; Geordi became the Chief Engineer of the Enterprise-D after 8 years of Starfleet service (a year after joining the crew of the Enterprise), spent 13-14 years as a Lieutenant Commander, and the last 6 as a Commander (barring his promotion to Captain before his subsequent voluntary demotion); and Data joined the Enterprise crew as a Lieutenant Commander with 19 years of active duty under his belt and was set to get his promotion 15 years later at the time of his death.