• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Prostitution in the Federation

Since there's no monetary based economy in the Federation people don't need to earn money and this means no sex for money.
Basic (and maybe not so basic) needs are covered so i think women don't feel the need to sell their body for money to make a living.

However i believe that even in the 24th century there'll be skanks, hoes, bitches who'll do it with anyone ;)

Additionally i think holodeck technology is sophisticated enough to be virtually indistinguishable from the real deal however i believe production of porn holodeck programs may be illegal in the Federation or why would Quark make a fortune out of his more "exotic" holosuite programs?

People keep saying that, but if there is now monetary based economy, then what is gold pressed latinum and why did they make such a big deal about it?
Further, if holodeck technology, just a gloried wank for linkswichers, then why did Quark have it in the contract of every Dabo girl that they had to sleep with him.

I said it before and I'll say it again artifical sex will never replace the real thing!

Sadly, you have a point, there always have been always will be skanks. Just ask Saul Tighe.
 
I would say legal but controlled. Everything sqeaky-clean in Federation Standard (except for DS9) ... but then, isn't the Federation basically a moneyless economy?
 
I would say legal but controlled. Everything sqeaky-clean in Federation Standard (except for DS9) ... but then, isn't the Federation basically a moneyless economy?


Why does everyone keep saying that Star Trek is a moneyless society, nd then not back it up with cannon to make the case????
 
People who say the Federation (or at least Earth or mankind) is moneyless have a case according to:

* Star Trek 4: The Voyage Home (Kirk wriggles out of paying for his pizza by explicitly saying that they don't have/use money in the 23rd century)

* DS9 "In the Cards" (Jake has a chat with Nog about the fact that he, as a Federation civilian junior citizen, doesn't have money or access thereto)

* TNG "The Neutral Zone" (and umpteen other cases of Picard explaining that hunger for profit or earthly possessions no longer forms the basis of human/Federation economy)

Basically, what we seem to be seeing is that Federation citizens don't have cash or credit, but instead have good social security to take care of their material and cultural needs - but that Starfleet personnel may get allocated some currency for dealing with primitive alien cultures. So, since we always follow the adventures of Starfleet personnel, there always exists the potential that they could use their expense accounts for purchasing prostitutes. And we know that Bashir and Miles essentially do that very thing at Quark's, only their prostitutes are holographic and not necessarily serving anything as dull as sex.

Recall DS9's "A Simple Investigation."

But that dealt with an alien culture outside the Federation sphere of influence - so having prostitution exist there is no more revealing about Federation practices than having gold-pressed latinum exist on Ferenginar.

Timo Saloniemi
 
People who say the Federation (or at least Earth or mankind) is moneyless have a case according to:

* Star Trek 4: The Voyage Home (Kirk wriggles out of paying for his pizza by explicitly saying that they don't have/use money in the 23rd century)

* DS9 "In the Cards" (Jake has a chat with Nog about the fact that he, as a Federation civilian junior citizen, doesn't have money or access thereto)

* TNG "The Neutral Zone" (and umpteen other cases of Picard explaining that hunger for profit or earthly possessions no longer forms the basis of human/Federation economy)

Basically, what we seem to be seeing is that Federation citizens don't have cash or credit, but instead have good social security to take care of their material and cultural needs - but that Starfleet personnel may get allocated some currency for dealing with primitive alien cultures. So, since we always follow the adventures of Starfleet personnel, there always exists the potential that they could use their expense accounts for purchasing prostitutes. And we know that Bashir and Miles essentially do that very thing at Quark's, only their prostitutes are holographic and not necessarily serving anything as dull as sex.

Recall DS9's "A Simple Investigation."

But that dealt with an alien culture outside the Federation sphere of influence - so having prostitution exist there is no more revealing about Federation practices than having gold-pressed latinum exist on Ferenginar.

Timo Saloniemi

Okay Timo, let's lawyer this.

1. Let's look at the context of STIV. Whatever he had, if anything, it would have been able to use to buy a pie in the 2oth Century. It's just like if you or I were in Sidney, holding dollars or euros, we couldn't buy a pie, or beer, or or anything. Doesn't mean we don't cash, just mean that we don't have local paper to trade.

2.Jake not having any cash, cedits, or gold pressed latimum makes sense. C'mon, if you were the SISKO, and you had a kid who hangs out with Nog, around Quark's no less, would you give a horny teen aged boy access to anything that would allow him to go buy time with a Dabo girl?!?!?!

3.The fact that Picard says that people aren't greedy any more means that they aren't greedy anymore, not that they use no medium to facilitate exchange. In fact, in the first episode of TNG Dr. Crusher is looking at fabric. I seem to remember she tells the guy to, "charge it to her account and transport it ot the Enterprise.

As for Bashir and O'Brien, we'll never know if they just flew fighters in their Battle of Britain simulation, or in addition they would occasionally get lucky with holographic RAF nurses, or whether they had Dabo girls dress up like RAF nurses. I hold out that sex alone on a holosuite is just wanking.
 
Let's look at the context of STIV. Whatever he had, if anything, it would have been able to use to buy a pie in the 2oth Century. It's just like if you or I were in Sidney, holding dollars or euros, we couldn't buy a pie, or beer, or or anything.

Won't work, as Kirk specifically said he/they didn't have/use money in the future.

Kirk might have been lying, to make himself look less cheap in front of the lady. Or he might have been broke in the 23rd century, perhaps because Starfleet confiscates the accounts of mutineers. Or he might have had money, but he couldn't fathom the idea of using money to pay for food, which is free where he comes from. But he most definitely wasn't saying "Yeah, I got shitloads of it, but it's of no use in paying for this pizza".

And whatever Jake was saying, he was doing it in the role of a Federation citizen, albeit admittedly a junior one. His exact words were "I'm human, I don't have any money", with the first part an obvious justification for the second part. As Jake extrapolates, "We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity. It means... it means we don't need money."

So while the writers were having fun with the ill-defined idea of a moneyless humanity (and possibly moneyless Federation), they also set the concept in stone at long last. Pretty much how the joke about changing Klingon foreheads in "Trials and Tribble-ations" canonized the concept that the foreheads indeed had changed.

Sorry about being semi-serious about this, but it does look as if money goes extinct in the 24th century, and already is of limited worth in the late 23rd (even though buying and selling still explicitly happens). There's no doubt a lot of finesse to this in-universe, and a lot of ambiguity in terms of what is actually written and shot, and plenty of tongues in plenty of cheeks - but it's still a confirmed feature of the Star Trek future.

The bottom line here is, yeah, our future heroes have money or something similar to it when the plot calls for it (probably Starfleet expense accounts), but they also always lack money when it comes to doing a common 20th century style purchase, for greater dramatic or comical effect. And buying the services of a prostitute would probably fall under the latter category...

As for Bashir and O'Brien, we'll never know if they just flew fighters in their Battle of Britain simulation, or in addition they would occasionally get lucky with holographic RAF nurses, or whether they had Dabo girls dress up like RAF nurses.

Oh, I see the services of a holographic Hun who dies in the cockpit of his Messerschmitt meeting the criteria of prostitution just as much as the services of a holographic nurse who opens her legs to the heroic pilot. The holo-Kraut fulfills a carnal fantasy by lending out his body for Bashir to exploit, probably in a more tangibly and conventionally erotic fashion than some fetish pro of today. There must be plenty of more far-out types of "sexual" services out there in the 24th century Federation than playing a Nazi target to the sadistic lust of a wannabe Briton.

That's what I meant by the idea of the 24th century folks failing to recognize the concept of prostitution. Every profession involving offering a body for hire is whoring when one gets down to it. Today, we have the most obvious whores in the broadcast arts and in sports, although ditch-digging fits the bill as well; tomorrow, the range would be much wider, wide enough to become meaningless.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Timo has a point. Prostitution would not be recognised as a job any more noteworthy than any other job. Ethical behaviour has no religious stain on it.
 
But wait, I want to go back to the money thing. So what was the gold pressed latinum.

I'm sorry, there was never any indication I could see that everything was just free.

As for prostitution, there were too many episodes from the various series in which characters were prositutes or there were allusions to prostitution.
 
Gold pressed latinum is, IIRC, a precious metal that the Ferengi use as a monetary unit in the form of bricks, bars and strips, and is recognized as such by most non-Federation governments (like Bajor, Cardassia, or the Klingons).
 
Gold pressed latinum is, IIRC, a precious metal that the Ferengi use as a monetary unit in the form of bricks, bars and strips, and is recognized as such by most non-Federation governments (like Bajor, Cardassia, or the Klingons).

Right. Got it! But was it used to buy things in the Federation?
 
Timo Saloniemi said:
Recall DS9's "A Simple Investigation."

But that dealt with an alien culture outside the Federation sphere of influence—so having prostitution exist there is no more revealing about Federation practices than having gold-pressed latinum exist on Ferenginar.

Timo Saloniemi

The point about "A Simple Investigation" responded to yours about whether "24th century heroes would truly recognize [italics mine] the concept of prostitution as a distinct area of sexuality, or trade, or social relationships."

My reply did not address the status of prostitution in the Federation, but rather someone's ability to distinguish it from other forms of sexual interaction.
 
Gold pressed latinum is, IIRC, a precious metal that the Ferengi use as a monetary unit in the form of bricks, bars and strips, and is recognized as such by most non-Federation governments (like Bajor, Cardassia, or the Klingons).

Right. Got it! But was it used to buy things in the Federation?

Not as far as i recall. You might want to consider that the Federation, as big as it is, is not the sole organization of the Alpha Quadrant.

They might not use a monetary based economy and i believe wherever a citizen goes in the Federation he'll get everything he needs at public services.
You are hungry? Go to a public restaurant where they have replicators (same goes for clothes and small or bigger stuff like furniture).
There are even privately run "businessess" like restaurants who don't charge for their food just because the patron and people working there like to cook for people as evidenced by Sisko's father. He's nothing to gain from having his own restaurant other than the pleasure he brings to his customers by serving "real" food and maybe do something productive during the day instead of watching Ferengi soap operas and going to public holodecks.

However there must be a system where Federation citizens can leave the Federation for some purpose and have local currency. I don't know how that would work though.. do they request money somewhere and get a sum based on some system?
We don't know since Trek wasn't a mock documentary about a futuristic economy.

All we know is that gold-pressed latinum is used by Ferengi and apparently other races as a currency because it can't be replicated for some reason (and thus counterfeit proof). I think that the Federation might be "earning" money by exporting goods and/or services to non-Federation races and investing the money in a sort of intergalactic stock market so they have foreign currency in case they can't trade goods or services.
 
To those that mentioned Risa --- there's never been anything to suggest they were Paid for it. It was plainly stated that they perform a sexual rite whenever someone presents that little statue thing. No mention of compensation was ever stated---was plain to me that they simply liked giving it away. (However, I'm sure keeping tourists happy on the planet was motivation too.)

Whether the Federation has a whole had legal prostitution or not I can't recall, but when holograms are readily available (and you can pick what your partner looks like), and completely disease-free...why bother with hookers??
 
(I'm one of those types who thinks the Federation does have money and a form of capitalism that ensures people work if they want wealth and luxuries, just that this exists alongside a socialism wherein the the basic necessities of healthy living are guaranteed -- free food, water, housing, medical care, etc.)


The French system, I believe.
 
What on earth makes you think that all forms of prostitution are automatically coercive or in any other way violates a person's free will?
Yeah, of course you're right. But I also wrote "etc." ;) The thing is, I just can't imagine the Federation to consider prostitution legal. Call me naive, but that's just the way I imagine it.:)

Au contraire. Not naive, just parochial. In a strict sense, prostitution is just a term our cuture uses to provide a meaning around an trade of money for sex. When stripped of our social, religious, or cultural biases, we are talking about people entering into the market place and exchanging currency for a service.

The Federation is a free market based economy. Perhaps the Federation exists to protect and promote free trade. Perhaps they believe that free trade among planets promotes peace and stability. If yes, everything could be for sale and for trade. Now on some planets prostitution could be illegal or immoral. On others...

Then there is the issue of space. How would an instellar government regulate something like sex for sale in space? This would not only be difficult, but expensive. This would/could bleed resources away from other Federtion priorities. In this environment, prostitution could be an immoral, frowned upon acitivity, but not illegal. On the other hand, given disease concerns, prostitution could be legal and regulated.

Ever been to Amsterdam?

Ever been to Nevada?
 
A nice thread, but aren't we all missing the point?
The REAL question we should be discussing is: Who was the better pimp? Harcourt Fenton Mudd or Quark? :klingon:
 
Gold pressed latinum is, IIRC, a precious metal that the Ferengi use as a monetary unit in the form of bricks, bars and strips, and is recognized as such by most non-Federation governments (like Bajor, Cardassia, or the Klingons).

Right. Got it! But was it used to buy things in the Federation?

Money IS used... Uhura & friends negotiated the price of tribbles... Harry Mudd wasn't pimpin' for free... Greed was the motivation for using a weak alien life form as a space station in the pilot for TNG... Quark was part of a larger group of those who traded IN THE FEDERATION with latinum.

My personal theory is that the idealistic Federation operates as a cashless society, but in the real, nitty-gritty world they use money. :vulcan: Some things work great in theory, but not so well in reality.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top