Risa is a Federation member world.
Prostitution in the Federation
- Thread starter Takomaguy
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Risa is a Federation member world.
Everyone has mentioned some excellent examples for discussion including but not limited to Dabo girls, Risian jamaharon, orion slave women (clearly outside the influence of Federation affairs) Argelian dancer girls, Wrigley's Pleasure Planet and even Holosex...
Anyone wonder how the Deltans might figure into such a debate? We know sexuality is one of the core features of their civilization, and they clearly look upon some other civilizations/species (Earth humans for one) as "sexually immature." We don't know nearly enough about them to say how they would actually view this topic, only vague dialog and production notes, but it would be interesting to add them to the mix for speculation purposes.
Anyone wonder how the Deltans might figure into such a debate? We know sexuality is one of the core features of their civilization, and they clearly look upon some other civilizations/species (Earth humans for one) as "sexually immature." We don't know nearly enough about them to say how they would actually view this topic, only vague dialog and production notes, but it would be interesting to add them to the mix for speculation purposes.
Quark, thinking out loud said,"I wonder what forbidden pleasures I could entice the Deltans with? There's gotta be something."
"Hey! Rom! Get over here!"
Nitpick time.
To be sure, the only suggestion that it belongs to the Federation is this phrase in "Let He Who Is Without Sin":
All other references to Risa merely tell us that Federation citizens frequent that location. And even the above reference could merely mean that the Federation sold the Risans the system they use. (Although the fact that Risa looked pretty well weather-controlled even in ENT, before there was a Federation, might suggest the system is actually native. Or then it was originally sold by somebody who later became a Federation member...)
Timo Saloniemi
To be sure, the only suggestion that it belongs to the Federation is this phrase in "Let He Who Is Without Sin":
All other references to Risa merely tell us that Federation citizens frequent that location. And even the above reference could merely mean that the Federation sold the Risans the system they use. (Although the fact that Risa looked pretty well weather-controlled even in ENT, before there was a Federation, might suggest the system is actually native. Or then it was originally sold by somebody who later became a Federation member...)
Timo Saloniemi
I would imagine that the legality of prostitution in the Federation is a matter determined by local law and custom.
In Risian space, for example (and I'm assuming here, despite Timo's reasonable speculations, that Risa is a Federation member), it's not only legal, but considered on some level sacred—akin, perhaps, to the [purported but now disputed] practice of priestesses in and around certain ancient Canaanite temples dedicated to a fertility goddess, such as Ishtar. The Horgon—and we'll avoid discussion of that particular name's ironically punny significance—seems to suggest this as a distinct possibility. There did seem to be an undercurrent of incredulous delight from certain Starfleet officers as related to Risian ... ahem ... generosity—as in, "Well, if I can get laid and help them stay in good graces with their gods, it's a win-win situation!"
At the spectrum's opposite end, I have little doubt there are Federation member worlds that consider prostitution an affront to the individual's dignity (or an offense against God/the gods) ... and, ironically enough, rather than leaving such decisions up to said individual, have instead outlawed the practice. No doubt such planets are slightly less popular tourist destinations than the aforementioned Risa. Of course, it may be just those planet's inhabitants that make Risa so popular.
Additionally, whether we like it or not, the introduction in TNG of the holodeck, and its more-than-implied ability to facsimile willing—and, it would seem, completely convincing, at least to some—sexual partners to exacting specifications would have dealt prostitution a serious though clearly not lethal blow, if Risa's continued popularity is any indication.
The idea that a truly evolved sensibility would necessarily gravitate towards acceptance and endorsement of prostitution, though, is absurd, and presupposes certain conceptions about the act's nature as fact. One could argue that atheism would incline a society to accept prostitution, because there's no perception of, say, a stodgy Overseer frowning on or forbidding the practice ... but that humanism might by and large reject it because of the potential for objectification.
In Risian space, for example (and I'm assuming here, despite Timo's reasonable speculations, that Risa is a Federation member), it's not only legal, but considered on some level sacred—akin, perhaps, to the [purported but now disputed] practice of priestesses in and around certain ancient Canaanite temples dedicated to a fertility goddess, such as Ishtar. The Horgon—and we'll avoid discussion of that particular name's ironically punny significance—seems to suggest this as a distinct possibility. There did seem to be an undercurrent of incredulous delight from certain Starfleet officers as related to Risian ... ahem ... generosity—as in, "Well, if I can get laid and help them stay in good graces with their gods, it's a win-win situation!"
At the spectrum's opposite end, I have little doubt there are Federation member worlds that consider prostitution an affront to the individual's dignity (or an offense against God/the gods) ... and, ironically enough, rather than leaving such decisions up to said individual, have instead outlawed the practice. No doubt such planets are slightly less popular tourist destinations than the aforementioned Risa. Of course, it may be just those planet's inhabitants that make Risa so popular.
Additionally, whether we like it or not, the introduction in TNG of the holodeck, and its more-than-implied ability to facsimile willing—and, it would seem, completely convincing, at least to some—sexual partners to exacting specifications would have dealt prostitution a serious though clearly not lethal blow, if Risa's continued popularity is any indication.
The idea that a truly evolved sensibility would necessarily gravitate towards acceptance and endorsement of prostitution, though, is absurd, and presupposes certain conceptions about the act's nature as fact. One could argue that atheism would incline a society to accept prostitution, because there's no perception of, say, a stodgy Overseer frowning on or forbidding the practice ... but that humanism might by and large reject it because of the potential for objectification.
I've often wondered how of the Star Trek sex came as a result of the sexual repression of the writers.
Nothing ... though only God offers that, as I understand it.
"Free sex," which is most people mean when they say "free love," is an oxymoron. Utopia means "nowhere" for a reason; and one way or another, you always pay.
Wow ... that sounds cynical, doesn't it?
That's entirely possible, and a valid take. We're all speculating, here.
One can enjoy something, though, without that being your primary motivation. Being able to say "I love my work," after all, is a frequent aspiration of smart laborers.
Most porn stars, from what I understand, enjoy sex, both on and off camera ... but would enjoy the former significantly less if they weren't paid for their day's debauchery.
At the risk of getting in trouble, I think you raise an interesting question about what love is and isn't. Prostitution, whatever else it may be is not love. I wonder, though, is it the absence of love?
Prostitution is trading sex for money.
Money doesn't exist in the Federation, therefore the concept of prostitution is irrelevant.
Trading sex for favours, however, is bribery. Is bribery legal?
Money doesn't exist in the Federation, therefore the concept of prostitution is irrelevant.
Trading sex for favours, however, is bribery. Is bribery legal?
What's gold pressed latimum, if not money?
Certainly not a Federation currency.
Certainly not a Federation currency.
Are you sure, sure, sure? Either way, I'm sure that gold pressed latinum could be converted to credits at Quark's for a fee.
I always thought that the Federation had some form of currency, but also used some form of plastic for charges, hence the term I seem to recall from TOS, "credits."
For example, let's say that an active duty starship captain is a GS-15 and he pulls F500,000 a year. This amount goes into his bank/Starfleet credit union account. Having to fool with exchange rates for non Federation worlds, or Federation allied worlds who are not using the Federation currency system, would just be one big pain in the ass. Sooo, you have some kind of plastic, or chip, or code, whateve, that allows you to buy stuff.
It would almost have to work like that. Think about it.
True. Chicks in the 24th century just give it up for the benefit of man.
I'd still miss pizza, though.
So! We've either established that there is prostitution in the Star Trek Universe because there is money in the Star Trek Universe, or that prostitution exists in general becuase there is money.
Interesting.
I wonder how much it costs in the Star Trek reality, or do you pay more becuase of certain species of women, laws of supply and demand, etc. I mean does time with a Bajoran woman cost more/less than time with a woman from Beta-zed, or whatever?
That sounds like an awfully narrow definition - perhaps something suitable for courts of law, but not particularly relevant to real life.
In many a case, money is not a practicable payment for sex, and assorted services and items are given as payment instead. And the courtroom definition of sexual intercourse (which can vary to an absurd extent depending on which court you listen to) doesn't really cover much of the true field of selling your feminine (or masculine, or either, or both, or whatever) attractions.
Trek prostitutes would certainly have much more to sell than the usual terrestrial variant. Telepathy would be a definite multiplier in anybody's ability to please or hurt another, for example. There would also be all sorts of futuristic interdependencies there that would blur the already ridiculous line between whore and wife (or husband, or either, both, whatever), and extend both concepts towards both extremes. I'm not sure our 24th century heroes would truly recognize the concept of prostitution as a distinct area of sexuality, or trade, or social relationships. Picard and Crusher seemed to have trouble with their definitions in "Perfect Mate" already, and they come from the same species, the same culture, the same organization.
Timo Saloniemi
Quite correct.
Here I disagree.
Recall DS9's "A Simple Investigation."
Arissa says to Odo, "You know how I ended up with this [dataport]? I was a net-girl. I told myself I wasn't selling my body since there was no actual contact. But I was. I let men into my mind for money."
She doesn't exactly sound proud of herself.
This seems more than enough to infer that there's still a strong social stigma, at least in certain circles, attached to the various forms of prostitution. In addition, considering the easy equanimity with which Odo, a cop, accepted the information, the practice may well be fairly widespread.
Since there's no monetary based economy in the Federation people don't need to earn money and this means no sex for money.
Basic (and maybe not so basic) needs are covered so i think women don't feel the need to sell their body for money to make a living.
However i believe that even in the 24th century there'll be skanks, hoes, bitches who'll do it with anyone
Additionally i think holodeck technology is sophisticated enough to be virtually indistinguishable from the real deal however i believe production of porn holodeck programs may be illegal in the Federation or why would Quark make a fortune out of his more "exotic" holosuite programs?
Basic (and maybe not so basic) needs are covered so i think women don't feel the need to sell their body for money to make a living.
However i believe that even in the 24th century there'll be skanks, hoes, bitches who'll do it with anyone
Additionally i think holodeck technology is sophisticated enough to be virtually indistinguishable from the real deal however i believe production of porn holodeck programs may be illegal in the Federation or why would Quark make a fortune out of his more "exotic" holosuite programs?
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