Production Quality Of Picard

[Dukhat]

I can imagine many, many complaints belong levied against PIC.





It "not looking good" is NOT among those complaints that I would imagine, though. Not by a long shot.

Yeah, the only two things that irked me about PIC production-wise was the 2399 Starfleet uniforms (and that was only because the first time I saw them was the grainy video of Picard meeting the ensign at Starfleet Command, and I thought the uniform looked cheap. However, once I saw it up close, it's obviously a better quality of material than I had first assumed) and Riker's fleet at the end (which was a rush job and a very boring design of ship.) But I also have a huge unapologetic bias against John Eaves's work, so there's that (although I did like the Wallenberg transports.)

 

[eschaton]

That's more or less due to science fiction makers realising the world doesn't change as drastically with the passage of time as they once thought it would.

Dude, this is demonstrably untrue.

I mean, 2399 is 379 years in the future. 379 years in the past was 1641. Men dressed like this:

We can recognize that as clothing, but it doesn't look anything like clothing today. Everyday/peasant clothing was of course a bit simpler, but not "virtually unchanged" either.

Basically there's two different philosophies when it comes to depicting the future.

I'm more partial to the idea that if you're going to portray the future it should be made clear that it's alien in some manner - that language, social mores, fashion, music, and art have moved on, and in some ways people of the future would seem bizarre to us. This sort of aesthetic is often seen in movies (like say The Fifth Element).

On the other hand, sometimes people just want to tell a simple story about relatable people. Too much time spent on little nuances like set and costume design in this case can be seen as distracting away from the main focus of the narrative and character arc.

 

[Lord Garth]

We can recognize that as clothing, but it doesn't look anything like clothing today. Everyday/peasant clothing was of course a bit simpler, but not "virtually unchanged" either.

Basically there's two different philosophies when it comes to depicting the future.

I'm more partial to the idea that if you're going to portray the future it should be made clear that it's alien in some manner - that language, social mores, fashion, music, and art have moved on, and in some ways people of the future would seem bizarre to us. This sort of aesthetic is often seen in movies (like say The Fifth Element).

On the other hand, sometimes people just want to tell a simple story about relatable people. Too much time spent on little nuances like set and costume design in this case can be seen as distracting away from the main focus of the narrative and character arc.

Do I think the way they dress in Picard is how people will dress in 2399? No.

But I have noticed that changes have become less and less from decade to decade. In 2020, you can wear something from 2009 and no one will care. In 1990, if you wore something from 1979, you would've been laughed at.

Any prediction of how people will dress in 2399 is going to be wrong. But since none of us will be around to see it, it's best not to make something too outlandish. As you say. Picard is intended to be a serious drama, so the characters should wear clothes that will make the audience take them seriously.

EDIT: When we see everyone in civilian clothing in TFF, they were very smart and careful about what they chose the characters to wear. That movie came out in 1989, over 30 years ago, but none of what they wore would look out of place in 2020. Look at Kirk: blue jeans, plaid shirt, white T-shirt underneath. It still works.

The trick is to avoid anything that looks too fad-ish. If you stick to what will last, you're golden. At least for this audience's lifetime.

 

[Dukhat]

Do I think the way they dress in Picard is how people will dress in 2399? No.

But I have noticed that changes have become less and less from decade to decade. In 2020, you can wear something from 2009 and no one will care. In 1990, if you wore something from 1979, you would've been laughed at.

Any prediction of how people will dress in 2399 is going to be wrong. But since none of us will be around to see it, it's best not to make something too outlandish. As you say. Picard is intended to be a serious drama, so the characters should wear clothes that will make the audience take them seriously.

Exactly. PIC (and Star Trek in general), while taking place in the future, is not futurism (i.e. a study of how events and trends of the future will unfold). It's contemporary people in a futuristic setting.

And yes, any attempt to 'interpret' what the future will be like will ultimately be as wrong as Hill Valley of 2015.

 

[Makarov]

I prefer that it looks futuristic rather than realistic. That's why BTTF2 still works, they weren't trying to really predict the future they just threw in a bunch of fun crazy ideas that seemed futuristic, like Lawyers being abolished and people wearing their pockets inside out. But you can still watch it and feel like Marty is in a futuristic world. The movie wouldn't really be better if they had realistic 2015.

I guess they could rework the flying cars into self driving cars and the hoverboard into a one-wheel but not much is gained by that realism. It's a story about the future and so is Picard

 

[Danja]

If you look around at the forums for the old shows they get just as much criticism as Picard

Oh, God, yes.

When TNG first came out, TOS fans hated it ("There can BE no Trek without Kirk and Spock!").

When DS9 came out, TNG and TOS fans hated on THAT one ("It's too dark! There's no ship!")

When Enterprise came out, the fans wailed, "There WAS no Starfleet prior to Kirk and Spock! You're mucking up the continuity! Jean-Luc Picard was the first to encounter the Borg!"

 

[TRON JA307020]

We've already been using it for around 150 years.

Heck, the word "fuck" which is also used in the show has been in use since somewhere between the late 1300's to late 1500's. So it's at least between 445-ish to 650-ish years old. And we still use it.

So your whinge about them using current day words in a show set in the future falls flat on its face. Especially since the word you're harping about has been in use for at least a century and a half already.

On STVH it was clearly stated that colorful swearing was a thing of the past. TNG followed that except only one time when data swore after he got his emotion chip. These characters are no different then 21st century people. Mankind hasn’t moved forward at all. Seven of nine is now a murderer because she shoots unarmed people. She basically learned nothing from her time in Voyager. Jurati murdered Maddox because she was scared. Raffi is a drunk and drug addict. Nothing in this show shows me that human beings have advanced since the 21st century. Starfleet itself is no longer what it once was. Basically everything has fallen back 300 years.

 

[fireproof78]

I think Star Trek is flexible enough to support both approaches. I don't think it is an either/or type of situation.

On STVH it was clearly stated that colorful swearing was a thing of the past. TNG followed that except only one time when data swore after he got his emotion chip. These characters are no different then 21st century people. Mankind hasn’t moved forward at all. Seven of nine is now a murderer because she shoots unarmed people. She basically learned nothing from her time in Voyager. Jurati murdered Maddox because she was scared. Raffi is a drunk and drug addict. Nothing in this show shows me that human beings have advanced since the 21st century. Starfleet itself is no longer what it once was. Basically everything has fallen back 300 years.

A war were millions are slaughtered will do that to a place.

Raffi is a drunk and a drug addict by choice.

Seven left the Federation and existed out in the more wild space.

People may learn but they may not always learn the right answers.

 

[F. King Daniel]

On STVH it was clearly stated that colorful swearing was a thing of the past.

Nobody said "dumbass" in Picard.

"Fuck" = in
"Dumbass" = out

 

[TRON JA307020]

Nobody said "dumbass" in Picard.

"Fuck" = in
"Dumbass" = out

They said colorful language as in swearing. You obviously didn’t get the movie.

 

[F. King Daniel]

They said colorful language as in swearing. You obviously didn’t get the movie.

Do we know for sure "fuck" is still considered a swear word in the late 24th century?

 

[TRON JA307020]

Do we know for sure "fuck" is still considered a swear word in the late 24th century?

It was stated that that type if language was gone by the 23rd century. Language from just 100 years ago had changed. There is no way that humans 400 years from now will be using the exact same slang as we do now with absolutely no difference. Roddenberry understood that which is why slang and swearing was not used. He knew certain parts of language would not survive.

 

[fireproof78]

Kirk called Kruge a bastard in the film before.

Kirk also states that no one takes you seriously unless you swear every other word. I never took that to mean swearing was gone.

 

[fireproof78]

It was stated that that type if language was gone by the 23rd century. Language from just 100 years ago had changed. There is no way that humans 400 years from now will be using the exact same slang as we do now with absolutely no difference. Roddenberry understood that which is why slang and swearing was not used. He knew certain parts of language would not survive.

Bullshit.

It was to sound enlightened, not a predictor. Roddenberry also said we wouldn't mourn death in the future either.

Should we bring that back?

 

[Lord Garth]

I prefer that it looks futuristic rather than realistic. That's why BTTF2 still works, they weren't trying to really predict the future they just threw in a bunch of fun crazy ideas that seemed futuristic, like Lawyers being abolished and people wearing their pockets inside out. But you can still watch it and feel like Marty is in a futuristic world. The movie wouldn't really be better if they had realistic 2015.

I guess they could rework the flying cars into self driving cars and the hoverboard into a one-wheel but not much is gained by that realism. It's a story about the future and so is Picard

For me, it depends on what I'm watching. I prefer that the look of what I'm watching matches the tone. Like it or not, Picard is going for a very specific type of feel. It wants to be taken seriously as an adult, prestige drama. It doesn't want to be silly, weird, and quirky.

The crazy ideas they had in BTTF II (a movie I love, BTW) just wouldn't work in PIC. There's a time and place for everything, and Picard isn't the place for it. If it were a different type of show, then sure, go nuts. Make it as super-future-y futuristic as you want. But in Picard? No. I think "realistic" is the better approach.

 

[fireproof78]

. I think "realistic" is the better approach.

I agree. B2TF is not a fair comparison.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Bullshit.

It was to sound enlightened, not a predictor. Roddenberry also said we wouldn't mourn death in the future either.

Should we bring that back?

As I recalled death was always mourned in Star Trek right from the first. But the language was enlightened in all the shows except for Discovery and now unfortunately Picard. Everyone gets “”pissed off” and the F word has become common place. I would fit right in clothing and language. Actually since I haven’t committed a crime such as murder I would actually be more enlightened then some of the crew like 7 of 9.

 

[fireproof78]

As I recalled death was always mourned in Star Trek right from the first. But the language was enlightened in all the shows except for Discovery and now unfortunately Picard. Everyone gets “”pissed off” and the F word has become common place. I would fit right in clothing and language. Actually since I haven’t committed a crime such as murder I would actually be more enlightened then some of the crew like 7 of 9.

Let's assimilate you in to a hive mind and see how you do.

Also, the f word was use twice..? Maybe. Picard's damn in Yesterday's Enterprise stood out more. People are treating it like a Eddie Murphy movie and it's not.

And I'm glad your more enlightened. That's the point of Trek is that humanity can become better. But, apparently no one can fail anymore. IDIC no more.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Let's assimilate you in to a hive mind and see how you do.

Also, the f word was use twice..? Maybe. Picard's damn in Yesterday's Enterprise stood out more. People are treating it like a Eddie Murphy movie and it's not.

And I'm glad your more enlightened. That's the point of Trek is that humanity can become better. But, apparently no one can fail anymore. IDIC no more.

7 of 9 never murdered a unarmed person in cold blood before while with voyager. She was only out of the cube for a short time back then.

 

[fireproof78]

7 of 9 never murdered a unarmed person in cold blood before while with voyager. She was only out of the cube for a short time back then.

She sent a member of Species 8472 to a Hirogen ship. That's murder.