Production Order Group Viewing 2018

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Archivist13, May 8, 2018.

  1. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    The weird thing is that "Balance of Terror" and "Where No Man Has Gone Before" were both rewritten by Roddenberry. He must have had second thoughts about these moments sometime down the line.
     
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  2. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I completely stand corrected!
    [​IMG]
    However, I still think Gary's behaviour was worse. Kirk had nothing better to do than stand there. Mitchell was manning the helm as a result of his little act of "compassion" had to do his job one-handed, putting the entire ship at risk in an impossibly dangerous situation. Bad move :thumbdown:
     
  3. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

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    Marsden is very sad.

    You know, if that thing somehow got revealed that was Gary, I think that would have improved that movie significantly, not huge but noticeably better. It would be an interesting symmetry to have one of the last adventures tie back to the first.

    Or maybe people would just complain about lack of originality. :shrug:
     
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  4. Poltargyst

    Poltargyst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I was just reading Cutie's "Is there in truth no awesome" thread and realizing that they DID revisit the idea of humans having ESP with Dr. Jones.
     
  5. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Kirk reaches for her because she's close by and he can reach her. He wants to shield someone he spends a good deal of time with who's smaller and lighter than him.
     
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  6. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, I admit of all the Kirk / Rand attraction scenes , this one bothered me the least. It doesn't feel weird at all. Considering that the intention was to keep it bubbling beneath the surface, this level of subtle non verbal cues would have got my vote going forward.
     
  7. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I would also argue that Gary's reaction is a subtle nod to the humanity that was locked up inside him despite it being squelched by the barrier-powers.
     
  8. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You mean holding the Yeoman's hand? He did that long before he got the superpowers
     
  9. alchemist

    alchemist Captain Captain

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    I think intentions are everything. Here's what the scripts say for the scenes under discussion.

    For "Where No Man Has Gone Before," the revised final draft script (dated July 8, 1965) has this:
    EMPHASIZING MITCHELL AND YEOMAN SMITH
    It's easy to like Mitchell. Without neglecting his instruments, he has caught the Yeomans' taut expression; he takes one of her hands reassuringly in his. She look gratefully to him. CAMERA ANGLES INCLUDE Elizabeth as she notices Mitchell and Smith holding hands, reflects annoyance -- then looks back up to the o.s. viewing screen again.


    And for "Balance of Terror," the revised final draft script (dated July 18, 1966) has this:
    SULU
    (calling out eagerly)
    Four, three, two, one... Impact.
    All quickly brace; Kirk protects Yeoman Rand. When the last of the bolt hits, its effect is to rock the ship sharply; some crewmen are thrown to the floor; instrument panels flicker on and off. There is a moment when all is still - and they look after each other, hardly daring to believe they've survived.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
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  10. Gary Mitchell

    Gary Mitchell Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That guy was a chump. I could take him easily.
     
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  11. Shawnster

    Shawnster Commodore Commodore

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    What happened to this show? Did they recast everyone? Only that alien Mr. Spock was the same as last week. The bridge has more color.

    Maybe it's one of those anthology shows. Wonder what next week's cast will be like.

    On this re-watch I can finally see that Spock and not Mitchell is XO. Kirk is captain but is his rank clear? Kirk asked for Mitchell on his first command, but there is no direct indication this is Kirk's first command. Maybe that was a previous ship ago.

    Dehner's medical file listed her age as 21 with DOB 1089.5. Mitchell was listed as 23 with DOB 1087.7. Were they really that young or was that their age when those studies and reports were written? The stardate for the episode is 1312.4. Kirk's tombstone lists dates 1277.1 to 1313.7. Would that put Kirk younger than the other 2? Was Kirk an instructor at the academy or just a brainiac that turned the grade curve into a straight line and pushed his fellow classmates to keep up?

    Now here is something I never picked up before in over 40 years Dehner was passionately defensive of ESPers almost from the start. Spock seemed rater antagonistic about human ESPers right away. It's as if either he personally or the culture as a whole was prejudiced against human telepaths. Puts this discussion in an interesting light : Vulcans & Empaths. Was this a Vulcan prejudice that Dehner opposed or was it a broader prejudice? Perhaps this was a leftover of the Eugenics Wars and the notion of creating superior humans? Maybe Dehner was an advocate of improving the species, or she had ESPer relatives who were persecuted for their abilities?

    "One of your Earth emotions." as if emotions were planet specific? Mars emotions are different?

    Earth ship. Earth base(s). No idea of Starfleet or the Federation yet. Earth this, Earth that. Yet my "TV guide" described the episode "As Kirk and Spock investigate a Starfleet tragedy, a friend of Kirk becomes empowered with Godlike powers. To stop him, Kirk must hatch a risky plan." whatever this Starfleet is.

    1996 was in the last couple of centuries. The Valiant was lost over 2 centuries earlier. Was the Valiant from the late 1900s? Are they now in the 2100s? Was the Valiant a Deadelus Class or NX Class or something other?

    I loved the plug and play technology used in the console panels. Pull the panel out of the cracking station and slide it in place on the Enterprise and it starts right up.

    I also never noticed before until today the out of uniform woman in the opening teaser. Off duty attire? Puts the couple outside of Pike's quarters more solidly in the same categ, I think, instead of civilians on board the ship.

    Great episode. Action packed. Had to know the rifle would be used the moment we say it emphasized. I hope we see another good one next week.
     
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  12. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sorry. I meant that it shows that what the powers later turned him into was not a complete reflection of who he was on the inside without them. A "feel sorry for Gary in retrospect" moment after the show is over.
     
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  13. Archivist13

    Archivist13 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Is it just me or is Spock really green in a couple of the early scenes? By the end of the episode he is more natural with a slight green tint. If this is the case, I wonder what was behind the transformer. Then again perhaps I am seeing things.
     
  14. mb22

    mb22 Captain Captain

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  15. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    .
    This is interesting. My take on the scene was that Gary was trying to show off to some innocent girl while on duty and that that Dehner rightly disapproved.
    Except we were meant to think that Mitchell was a nice guy while Dehner was an uptight bitch.

    I'm thinking thats because I don't want to think of women crew/officers needing reassurance every time something unusual happens.
     
  16. Poltargyst

    Poltargyst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I like reading posts as you've done, like you're seeing these episodes in 1966 and you don't know what's coming next.
     
  17. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

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    Marsden is very sad.


    I quoted your posts because you both brought up points that I never paid attention to or even noticed before and I want to thank you for making something I've seen more times than I can count have some "new" aspects to it.

    One of my ancestors married a human and one of your Earth emotions were clumsy dialogue, I'm happy things improved later. Also, no one really said Spock was an alien last episode, this is the first time it's mentioned IIRC.

    Another thing, no one says Smith is a Yeoman, so why are we? She only has a single four word line, but she gives or isn't addressed by rank or duty. But she clearly reaches out to Gary to hold on to him, I don't know if it was poor stage direction but she initiated it. So Gary could have ignored her, implied to be new because Jim doesn't know her name, but that would be kind of rude. I don't think her reactions are inappropriate, it's a very scary situation and a lot of the other's seem worried too. So while I've seen this before I never paid it this much attention. Also, someone posted that Elizabeth had a disapproving look on her face, I can't say yes or no to that but not long after she is holding Scott's hand, so there's hand holding going on. I don't find it to be wrong or bad in anyway for people to hold on to each other in times of fear or danger, it's a human reaction.
    I also noticed the command badges have the star but the science people seem to have the spiral that went to the red shirts who are tan in this episode and have the circle.

    It's fascinating that I never stopped to even try to read those files before you mentioned their ages. I just assumed it was the written equivalent to watermelon watermelon because who could stop tv and read the things when this was made? There's actually some interesting stuff in there but it makes a bit of a blooper for me, Elizabeth's file is very blatantly saying that the only reason she became a psychologist is because of her interest in esper powers and Spock and Jim aren't suspicious of her objectivity as the crisis is developing? Also it says born stardate and then age 23 or 21, are those ages in years? Stardates aren't years, why would the ages be? And their addresses seem to be in US postal format, but the states both start with New but are cut off.

    Once again the full emotional impact is lost because we're getting to know Gary at the end of his life only. There's some good clues about what kind of guy Gary usually is, and I like him, but they are subtle and this episode really makes him seem like a jerk. Like not knowing Pike well enough to appreciate what's happening to him, we don't really get to know Gary before this happens. Jim and Gar are good friends from a long way back, but Lee Kelso is also friends with Gary, he calls him Mitch and stops by sick bay just to see him. Where Jim and Gary seem more like equals, Lee seems to look up to him, and Gary looks out for Lee, which is even more tragic that Lee is murdered. Poor Lee, I really liked him but he doesn't even get a mention in the end. At least Scott praised his skill before he was killed.

    But that brings me to the weird theory about this episode anyway, regarding Gary. I know we are supposed to just assume that any person that suddenly has these "powers" will be corrupted, Jim explicitly says so in his speech, but I think that barrier has some kind of life forms swarming through it that resemble electrical impulses. The nine crewmen that died were killed by having one of them trying to inhabit their bodies. Some how Gary and Liz were able to handle the strain and live. Maybe those were weaker ones, but the one that got Gary grew much stronger incubating in him. I don't think Gary was in charge, his memories were intact but that creature was running the show. And Gary was ageing much faster, like when Zargon inhabited Jim's body, Gary was being sped up and probably wouldn't have lived as long s he thought he was going to, unless the creature was converting him into more of an energy being.

    Spock's gun belt looks like WW2 surplus painted silver.

    I always wondered, what if another starship in trouble had visited Delta Vega recently and all the stuff they needed was already gone.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
  18. Gary Mitchell

    Gary Mitchell Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Yeah, I hadn't thought about the fact that Lee doesn't get mentioned at the end of the episode before. I feel really bad about that. :whistle:
     
  19. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    Gary's holding hands was inappropriate. If he'd just gave her a reassuring look or a wink it would have been OK for a scared first-timer I suppose. The scene was probably just a device for us audience members to know that the situation was scary but I've worked with Army personnel and there's no way that any female enlisted or officer would hold hands (in terror) with a male superior officer. Just no way. Although I haven't been in a battle situation with them just boring civilian situations.. The whole scene makes women look weak especially with their limited representation on the bridge and in the decision making conferences.
    Gary seems a bit of a jerk, He's a little bit mean to Spock - no worse than Kirk. He makes sexist remarks. Yet Kirk and Kelso like him and if Kirk's known him for years then I can't believe Kirk's that bad a judge of character.

    I wonder if Spock hadn't detected Gary as a threat and to encourage Kirk to take action if Gary would have turned murderous. Spock could have said Gary would become so advanced think of all the discoveries he could make that would help Earth. Sometimes Spock seems to pull his predictions out of the air but perhaps his Vulcan telepathic powers (as opposed to his ESP ratings), the experiences of the Valiant's crew, his knowledge of Gary's personality made him think Gary was going the way of despot ruler of the galaxy rather than benevolent saviour of mankind.
     
  20. Archivist13

    Archivist13 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Production Order Week 3
    Star Trek Episode 1x02 The Corbomite Maneuver
    First aired: November 10, 1966
    3rd episode produced, but 10th episode released.

    Exploring a distant region of space, the Enterprise is threatened by Balok, commander of a starship from the First Federation.