Production Order Group Viewing 2018

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Archivist13, May 8, 2018.

  1. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Sep 7, 2014
    You could try Stardate order or even the crazy BBC order? Are there any other stations that played TOS out of sequence over the years that anybody knows about?
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  2. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Aug 5, 2009
    North Wales
    Stardate order at least eliminates that Chekov/Khan conundrum! :devil:
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  3. Archivist13

    Archivist13 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    May 8, 2018
    Starting tomorrow (Monday May 13) we will discuss the first pilot The Cage! I will be watching the extended version that is on disc 6 of the TOS Season 3 blu ray.
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  4. dahj

    dahj Vice Admiral Admiral

    Oct 14, 2003
    We've gone through seasons 1&2, all the episodes already discussed are indexed and linked in the opening post for easy reference in case you wanna see what people have been saying about it or wish to comment on it ;)

    Season 3 starts on the 20th of September. You're all welcome to join in the discussion of course. :)
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  5. 1001001

    1001001 Pull Up a Groove and Get Fabulous! Moderator

    Nov 3, 2001
    Danny Street
    I actually prefer Alphabetical Order.

    That's how Real Fans rewatch TOS.

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  6. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Aug 5, 2009
    North Wales
    Then I guess this guy is real fan!

    The actual TOS list goes:
    • All Our Yesterdays
    • Alternative Factor
    • Amok Time
    • And the Children Shall Lead
    • Apple
    • Arena
    • Assignment Earth
    • Balance of Terror
    • Bread and Circuses
    • By Any Other Name
    • Cage
    • Catspaw
    • Changeling
    • Charlie X
    • City on the Edge of Forever
    • Cloud Minders
    • Conscience of the King
    • Corbomite Maneuver
    • Court Martial
    • Dagger of the Mind
    • Day of the Dove
    • Deadly Years
    • Devil in the Dark
    • Doomsday Machine
    • Elaan of Troyius
    • Empath
    • Enemy Within
    • Enterprise Incident
    • Errand of Mercy
    • For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky
    • Friday's Child
    • Galileo Seven
    • Gamesters of Triskelion
    • I, Mudd
    • Immunity Syndrome
    • Is There in Truth No Beauty?
    • Journey to Babel
    • Let That Be Your Last Battlefield
    • Lights of Zetar
    • Man Trap
    • Mark of Gideon
    • Menagerie, Part I
    • Menagerie, Part II
    • Metamorphosis
    • Miri
    • Mirror, Mirror
    • Mudd's Women
    • Naked Time
    • Obsession
    • Omega Glory
    • Operation: Annihilate!
    • Paradise Syndrome
    • Patterns of Force
    • Piece of the Action
    • Plato's Stepchildren
    • Private Little War
    • Requiem for Methuselah
    • Return of the Archons
    • Return to Tomorrow
    • Savage Curtain
    • Shore Leave
    • Space Seed
    • Spectre of the Gun
    • Spock's Brain
    • Squire of Gothos
    • Taste of Armageddon
    • That Which Survives
    • This Side of Paradise
    • Tholian Web
    • Tomorrow is Yesterday
    • Trouble with Tribbles
    • Turnabout Intruder
    • Ultimate Computer
    • Way to Eden
    • What Are Little Girls Made Of?
    • Where No Man Has Gone Before
    • Who Mourns for Adonais?
    • Whom Gods Destroy
    • Wink of an Eye
    • Wolf in the Fold
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  7. Archivist13

    Archivist13 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    May 8, 2018
    A couple of my thoughts regarding the Cage. Keep in mind that I am fairly new to the Star Trek world and don't have the background that somebody that has watched all the different incarnations of Star Trek has. So if some of my comments and/or questions sound uninformed....they are.

    I actually like Jeffrey Hunter as Captain Christopher Pike. I can see why he didn't play as well as William Shatner's Captain Kirk due to the time period that it was made in. America still had a sense of innocence and free love was the atmosphere. Captain Kirk played to that aspect well. Captain Pike was more introverted and introspective. He struggled with leadership by internalizing his conflict and it made him seem distant. Captain Kirk was more fun and a great popular leader, but Captain Pike was more cynical. If TOS had been produced in the 1990's, I think Captain Pike would have been the correct character for the show.

    I also liked Majel Barret as Number One. I think she would have been a good compliment to Captain Pike if the show had gone that direction.
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  8. Shawnster

    Shawnster Commodore Commodore

    Jul 28, 2008
    Clinton, OH
    Star Trek S01E00 The Cage

    Wow, what a cool show! I hope they make an entire series out of this. That spaceship is do different than anything else from the time period. OK, not so different, but different enough to be unique. It could even become iconic. And an alien as part of the crew! I hope we learn more about this Spock fellow through the series.

    BTW, nice haircut, Spock.

    Interesting concept. Almost Twilight Zone in it's approach. Morality tale set in a science fiction setting. VINA: "Don't hurt them. They don't mean to be evil." It does make you wonder how far would our species go to restore the Earth after a nuclear holocaust.

    Were the Talosians really long lived as a species or as individuals or both?

    I never noticed until this viewing how much Susan Oliver looks like Amy Carlson from Blue Bloods.

    Interesting the similarities to other Trek's. Number One's uniform, particularly the collar, reminded me of Burman's prison uniform collar on Discovery. The paper print out with the information on Talos also reminded me of, I think, the only other print out report in Trek and that was Encounter at Farpoint when they want to use print out in case Q was eavesdropping. Also similar to TNG is calling the first officer "Number One" and the captain signaling they should go to warp by saying "engage."

    Number One doesn't seem that cold and emotionless to me, despite her description as such later in the episode. In fact, her disappointment at not being on the initial landing party was quite obvious. Pike even apologized and explained his decision.

    Tyler has to use his fingers and count to timewarp factor 7.

    The transporter assistant was wearing glasses the first time we see him, then never again. Must have been some kind of safety glasses and he was just finishing up some sort of repair. That's my head canon anyway.

    Somebody looks to be wearing a medical patch of some kind like a Nicorrette patch or a vitamin patch. It's noticeable here. Eh, maybe it's just where the collar of the uniform attaches. Sure looked like a medical patch to me.
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  9. Gary Mitchell

    Gary Mitchell Fleet Admiral Admiral

    May 16, 2001
    ¯\_(°·O)_/¯ Florida
    I think it's a band-aid.
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  10. Shawnster

    Shawnster Commodore Commodore

    Jul 28, 2008
    Clinton, OH

    We might glean some points here.

    It will be interesting to see the differences if Star Trek revisits this idea. I heard a rumor it might show up again

    Sounds like the TNG era holodeck.
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
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  11. Archivist13

    Archivist13 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    May 8, 2018
    That would be so cool! I hope so!

    This scene is actually my favorite of the episode. Her reaction was very convincing, and I felt very bad for her.
  12. Poltargyst

    Poltargyst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jun 12, 2014
    I saw this episode multiple times back in the 70's, but I'm not sure if I've seen it since. It was interesting to see it again some things seeming like new.

    Fun fact: I don't own any Star Trek episodes. To watch this, I went online and found a site that shows these episodes. And the site also showed subtitles. Unfortunately, the subtitles were for TNG's first episode "Encounter at Farpoint." It was interesting following "Encounter at Farpoint" by dialogue only while watching "The Cage."

    It is a Star Trek staple to have a logical character who is without emotion or at least supressing their emotions as a way for the show to examine human behavior...Spock, Data...etc. Number One is presented as so logical, I wonder if she was meant to be that character. It certainly wasn't Spock (THE WOMEN!!!!). If they'd been able to keep Majel and the Number One character, I suspect Spock never would have turned out to be logical and emotion-supressing, and neither would Vulcans in general. So much of Star Trek would be so different just from that one change.

    Hell is a fable? Oh, the Christians aren't going to like that.

    Why didn't Pike spill his drink while he was writhing around in Hell?

    I didn't remember most of the conversation at the picnic. I wonder if that's a scene that got cut when it went to syndication.

    The Yeoman has "unusually strong female drives?" She gets horny a lot?

    Spock took command and was going to leave? Douche.

    Seems hard to believe that humans are unique in hating captivity.

    If Vina is so old and broken, how could she have children anyway? Well, she did say "everything works."

    The Yeoman presents a PAPER report? That's funny.

    Watching it this time I thought the Vina actress was really good.
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  13. scotpens

    scotpens Professional Geek Premium Member

    Nov 29, 2009
    The Left Coast
    That's what the character of Number One was intended to be -- cool, aloof, mysterious. When NBC rejected Majel Barrett in that role, Gene basically combined two characters -- the logical, unemotional Number One and the alien Mr. Spock (whose character was very sketchy at that point) to come up with the Spock we're all familiar with.

    Much of the dialogue in that scene was cut when the original pilot was edited into the two-part episode "The Menagerie."

    Susan Oliver (1932-1990) was an exceptionally talented actress. She was one of those guest stars who used to show up in everything on primetime TV back in the '60s. She was also a skilled airplane pilot. Oh, and she was gorgeous.

    If you can find it, I'd recommend watching George Pappy's documentary on Susan, titled The Green Girl.
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
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  14. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

    Apr 19, 2013
    Backwaters of Australia
    Here's my take on "The Cage". Watch out!
    Its been mentioned before but why did Pike mention he wasn't used to seeing women on the bridge because there were multiple women on the bridge at the time. I think the line must have been written before someone cast the extras and while GR was having a hard time with his wife over his next wife-to-be.

    I think having Pike, Number 1 and Spock as all deadly serious characters would be a bit different original series. Time Tunnel did it OK I suppose.

    I wish they more revelations about Spock being an alien and why he had a limp. and less revelation about Pike's disenchantment with his career and Number 1s fantasies. I think there were too many 'spoilers' for a potential series.

    I love the uniforms, jackets, the details in the trap set for the Enterprise, the transporters, the phasers.

    I liked Majel as Number one when she was on screen without Pike. His presence made her seem dull or hard.
  15. mb22

    mb22 Captain Captain

    May 11, 2009
    Perhaps it's part of the aftermath of the Rigel VII battle, like Spock's limp and Tyler's bandage.
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  16. Shawnster

    Shawnster Commodore Commodore

    Jul 28, 2008
    Clinton, OH
    The Cage was never shown on broadcast TV. It's an unaired pilot. They did take most of the episode and show it in the 2-part Menagerie. Most of the picnic scene was not in that 2-parter. What you are remembering is watching the 2-parter.

    When I first saw The Cage it was on tape in the late 80s (or early 90s). They found a copy and released it on video. It was a mix of black and white (the footage cut from Menagerie) and color (scenes used in Menagerie). There was a special introduction by Gene Roddenberry. Now that was an absolute treat seeing unaired and previously unseen (except at conventions) Star Trek after seeing every episode multiple times for 20 years or so.
  17. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Aug 5, 2009
    North Wales
    That was the intention, albeit delivered somewhat subtly as background detail
  18. scotpens

    scotpens Professional Geek Premium Member

    Nov 29, 2009
    The Left Coast
    "The Cage" in its original pilot form (and entirely in color -- a surviving color print was discovered in the Paramount vaults) -- was broadcast as part of the syndicated two-hour special The Star Trek Saga: From One Generation To The Next in October 1988. The special was hosted by Patrick Stewart.
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  19. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jun 1, 2016

    Spock's limp was supposed to get its own story. Unless they planned the story to be about what happened on Rigel VII.

    You know, considering that the battle on Rigel VII was so traumatic, Kirk's suggestion in The Final Frontier to sing "Moon Over Rigel VII" around the campfire almost seems insensitive. :vulcan: Though I'm sure Spock would have assured Kirk that as a Vulcan, it didn't bother him the way it would a Human.

    Whenever I see the name of that song, I read it as "Vee-Eye (Eye)", not seven.
  20. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

    May 7, 2011
    Aug 10, 1999
    I'm looking at the first 10 minutes of shipboard operations and it shows something interesting...

    Pike's State of Mind: Two crewmen who are standing shrug at each other when Pike gets up to leave the bridge at the end of the first scene. When Pike asks for Boyce to drop by his cabin, Boyce brings the martini with him automatically. The reactions from two crewmen and Boyce's actions make it look like something's been up with the Captain. Like Rigel VII was the straw that finally broke camel's back. "I've had it, Phil." "To the point of finally taking my advice or requesting rest leave?" Bolding intentional on my part.

    Women on the Bridge: There's another woman on the bridge, besides Number One, sitting near the station where the print-out out of the report about survivors on Talos IV is made. Making Pike's later line, in reference to Colt, about how he can't get used to having a woman on the bridge sound even stranger. The best possible defense I can come up with for it is, they're trying to be progressive just by having women on the bridge. As if, "times are a changin'" and Pike -- a stand-in for a "1950s" man -- has to get used to it.

    "Our Time Warp: Factor Seven": Love seeing the Enterprise go to Warp. The sequence here makes it feel like a True Event.

    Random Thought: I don't care what anyone says. I like the goose-necks.

    Visual Cues: And the physical damage some of the crew have from the fight on Rigel VII, including one crewman who looks like he took a gash to the neck. Pike and Boyce wanted to take care of their own sick-and-injured before going to Talos IV and this is a visual reminder as they approach Talos IV that they haven't done that.

    Transporter Technicians: They have clipboards on the consoles that one of them is writing on, as Pike and his Landing Party are about to beam down to Talos IV. I wonder if it's to make Transporters look like an involved process. It seems that way from how long the beaming takes. But also makes the beaming down seem more dramatic.

    I'm not going to go through the rest of the episode in this much detail, but it seems like the first 10 minutes are really devoted to showing what the ship, what the Captain, and what the crew are like.

    In later Star Trek, including TOS, normally a distress call would be received, the Enterprise would go to Talos IV beam down, and then Kirk (for instance) would be captured. Cue opening credits. "The Cage" is much slower and more deliberate in its pacing while trying to make us familiar with the operations of the ship before starting the actual adventure itself.
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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